Fundin Olsen Nielsen Would They Have All Won More World Title's If There Had Been A Gp Series Around.?

[Guest]

Indeed he did. This could go on for some time.

 

Perhaps people should be more specific with their questions!

 

Careful Norbold - asking a question like that! It led me into trouble on another thread when I remarked that Posts should be more specific.

[Sidney the robin 4,735]

A quick glance through my records indicates that between 1956 and 1963 Peter Craven and Ove Fundin met in 49 races at Hyde Road, with Peter ahead 31-18.

1956 team matches Craven 0 Fundin 2

1957 Golden Helmet Craven 2 Fundin 0

1958 team Craven 3 Fundin 0, Golden Helmet Craven 2 Fundin 0

1959 team Craven 0 Fundin 1, Golden Helmet Craven 2 Fundin 1

1960 team Craven 1 Fundin 4

1961 team Craven 3 Fundin 1, Golden Helmet Craven 0 Fundin 2, second half races Craven 3 Fundin 0

1962 team Craven 3 Fundin 2, Golden Helmet Craven 3 Fundin 2

1963 team Craven 3 Fundin 2, Golden Helmet Craven 4 Fundin 0, second half Craven 2 Fundin 1

 

Not including the second half races, some of which were Gold Cup qualifiers, the score was Craven 26 Fundin 17.

Thanks BL great stuff up until his death the original PC was in front was aged only 29 how many titles could he have won who knows!😀 Edited June 15, 2016 by Sidney the robin

[norbold 7,179]

Thanks BL great stuff up until his death the original PC was in front was aged only 29 how many titles could he have won who knows!

Who knows indeed, Sydney. Personally, though, I don't think he would have won any more. Ove 63, Briggo 64 and 66, Bjorn 65, frankly couldn't see him beating any of those. Maybe 67 might have been his one chance as we then moved into the Mauger years.

A quick glance through my records indicates that between 1956 and 1963 Peter Craven and Ove Fundin met in 49 races at Hyde Road, with Peter ahead 31-18.

1956 team matches Craven 0 Fundin 2

1957 Golden Helmet Craven 2 Fundin 0

1958 team Craven 3 Fundin 0, Golden Helmet Craven 2 Fundin 0

1959 team Craven 0 Fundin 1, Golden Helmet Craven 2 Fundin 1

1960 team Craven 1 Fundin 4

1961 team Craven 3 Fundin 1, Golden Helmet Craven 0 Fundin 2, second half races Craven 3 Fundin 0

1962 team Craven 3 Fundin 2, Golden Helmet Craven 3 Fundin 2

1963 team Craven 3 Fundin 2, Golden Helmet Craven 4 Fundin 0, second half Craven 2 Fundin 1

 

Not including the second half races, some of which were Gold Cup qualifiers, the score was Craven 26 Fundin 17.

It would be interesting to know what the Norwich scores were.

[lucifer sam 3,960]

Who knows indeed, Sydney. Personally, though, I don't think he would have won any more. Ove 63, Briggo 64 and 66, Bjorn 65, frankly couldn't see him beating any of those. Maybe 67 might have been his one chance as we then moved into the Mauger years.

 

 

I'm slightly less convinced. After Fundin dipped slightly following 1963, Briggo and Knutsson shared top billing in '64 and '65 (with Plechanov also right up there), and then it was Briggo in '66 and '67.

 

At the time of his death, Craven was a two-time World Champion and so was Briggo. Who was the better of the two? There's an argument both ways - but it's possible that Craven would have taken a title or two from Briggo.

 

All the best

Rob

[norbold 7,179]

 

I'm slightly less convinced. After Fundin dipped slightly following 1963, Briggo and Knutsson shared top billing in '64 and '65 (with Plechanov also right up there), and then it was Briggo in '66 and '67.

 

At the time of his death, Craven was a two-time World Champion and so was Briggo. Who was the better of the two? There's an argument both ways - but it's possible that Craven would have taken a title or two from Briggo.

 

All the best

Rob

Of course, Rob, we will never know and it is all open to speculation. I am to some extent going by my own memory of the period. I was a little surprised at the time when Knutson didn't win the 1964 World title as I think he had his best years in 64 and 65. I know Briggo had had two good years back in 1957 and 58, but to me he seemed to take a slight dip after that but came back even stronger in the 64-67 period. I think my view of Peter Craven may be somewhat coloured by his performances at New Cross as he never seemed to me to really get to grips with the track and was always behind the likes of Fundin and Ronnie Moore at the Frying Pan. Though, of course, probably Briggo's worst year was the year he actually rode for New Cross as he didn't really like it either - too small! However, I was able to see Briggo at West Ham later on a track much more to his liking, but sadly, by the time West Ham opened, Craven was no longer with us.

 

All very subjective I suppose.

[lucifer sam 3,960]

Of course, Rob, we will never know and it is all open to speculation. I am to some extent going by my own memory of the period. I was a little surprised at the time when Knutson didn't win the 1964 World title as I think he had his best years in 64 and 65. I know Briggo had had two good years back in 1957 and 58, but to me he seemed to take a slight dip after that but came back even stronger in the 64-67 period. I think my view of Peter Craven may be somewhat coloured by his performances at New Cross as he never seemed to me to really get to grips with the track and was always behind the likes of Fundin and Ronnie Moore at the Frying Pan. Though, of course, probably Briggo's worst year was the year he actually rode for New Cross as he didn't really like it either - too small! However, I was able to see Briggo at West Ham later on a track much more to his liking, but sadly, by the time West Ham opened, Craven was no longer with us.

 

All very subjective I suppose.

 

Hi Norbold, yes it's all subjective.

 

My dad reckoned Peter Craven was the best rider around Oxford in that era. He smashed the Oxford track record in 1963, when beating Fundin in the Golden Helmet and the record stood until they changed the length of the track in 1974. No-one went faster around Cowley until Dave Perks in 1981.

 

Opinions are coloured by how they perform around your own track. It's probably why many Oxford fans of a certain age considered Craven to be the best of the lot.

 

And it's probably why, many years before the Nielsen feud, many Oxford fans didn't rate Olsen, who couldn't stand the place, made excuses not to turn up at Cowley, and refused to come when allocated to Oxford by Rider Control in 1975.

 

All the best

Rob

[BL65 658]

Who knows indeed, Sydney. Personally, though, I don't think he would have won any more. Ove 63, Briggo 64 and 66, Bjorn 65, frankly couldn't see him beating any of those. Maybe 67 might have been his one chance as we then moved into the Mauger years.

It would be interesting to know what the Norwich scores were.

Again, scanning through my records I believe that between 1955 and 1963 Ove Fundin and Peter Craven met in 84 races at The Firs, with Ove ahead 52-32.

1955 team match Fundin 0 Craven 3

1956 team Fundin 2 Craven 1, Individual meeting Fundin 1 Craven 0, second half race Fundin 0 Craven 1

1957 team Fundin 1 Craven 1, Individual Fundin 1 Craven 1, Golden Helmet Fundin 2 Craven 1, second half Fundin 1 Craven 0

1958 team Fundin 1 Craven 2, Individual Fundin 3 Craven 1, Test Fundin 1 Craven 1, Golden Helmet Fundin 2 Craven 0

1959 team Fundin 1 Craven 0, Individual Fundin 3 Craven 2, Golden Helmet Fundin 4 Craven 2, second half Fundin 1 Craven 0

1960 team Fundin 5 Craven 2, second half Fundin 1 Craven 0

1961 team Fundin 1 Craven 4, Individual Fundin 0 Craven 1, Test Fundin 2 Craven 0, Golden Helmet Fundin 2 Craven 0, second half Fundin 2 Craven 2

1962 team Fundin 2 Craven 2, second half Fundin 1 Craven 2

1963 team Fundin 5 Craven 0, Individual Fundin 1 Craven 0, Golden Helmet Fundin 4 Craven 2, second half Fundin 2 Craven 1

Not including the second half races the score was Fundin 44 Craven 26.

Peter was ahead in 63% of all their races at Belle Vue and Ove was ahead in 62% at Norwich. Excluding second half races Craven was ahead in 60.5% at Hyde Road and Ove was ahead in 63% at The Firs.

[norbold 7,179]

 

My dad reckoned Peter Craven was the best rider around Oxford in that era. He smashed the Oxford track record in 1963, when beating Fundin in the Golden Helmet and the record stood until they changed the length of the track in 1974.

Funnily enough, that's just reminded me of when Ove Fundin smashed the New Cross track record in 1960, when beating Briggo in the Golden Helmet. He beat the old track record in both races. Not only did he smash the track record but he also smashed Briggo! This record also stood till New Cross closed in 1963.

 

Finally, just to put all this in the context of my experience, the first meeting I ever went to was New Cross v. Norwich. Fundin scored an 18 point maximum and was just unstoppable, in a class of his own. I guess that has coloured my views ever since! Plus I've known him personally for about the last 15 years and he's a top bloke!

[Sidney the robin 4,735]

Of course, Rob, we will never know and it is all open to speculation. I am to some extent going by my own memory of the period. I was a little surprised at the time when Knutson didn't win the 1964 World title as I think he had his best years in 64 and 65. I know Briggo had had two good years back in 1957 and 58, but to me he seemed to take a slight dip after that but came back even stronger in the 64-67 period. I think my view of Peter Craven may be somewhat coloured by his performances at New Cross as he never seemed to me to really get to grips with the track and was always behind the likes of Fundin and Ronnie Moore at the Frying Pan. Though, of course, probably Briggo's worst year was the year he actually rode for New Cross as he didn't really like it either - too small! However, I was able to see Briggo at West Ham later on a track much more to his liking, but sadly, by the time West Ham opened, Craven was no longer with us.

All very subjective I suppose.

Craven i would imagine would of loved West Ham,Craven/Briggs both have to be in the best five riders to ever ride Hyde Rd.

[waiheke1 4,295]

Along with the other pc, Olsen and Carter? Or Mauger? Gundersen? Parker or fundin?

[Sidney the robin 4,735]

Along with the other pc, Olsen and Carter? Or Mauger? Gundersen? Parker or fundin?

Along with the other pc, Olsen and Carter? Or Mauger? Gundersen? Parker or fundin?

Gundersen would not be there on just some decent performances surely? great rider but Hyde Rd he would not get in a top six would he.? Edited June 15, 2016 by Sidney the robin

[waiheke1 4,295]

Gundersen would not be there on just some decent performances surely? great rider but Hyde Rd he would not get in a top six would he.?

In my era (80s) I'd go Carter gundersen Morton. Nielsen probably in there somewhere, but wouldn't consider him a Hyde Rd specialist, just awesome everywhere once he hit his peak!

Gundersen won two blrc, was in a run off for another, equal track record holder, and was generally dominant there in the league.

Maybe not top 6 ever, but cetaonly close - I'm guessing other aces fans may debate whether he or Carter was the best visiting rider in the 80s.

[Sidney the robin 4,735]

In my era (80s) I'd go Carter gundersen Morton. Nielsen probably in there somewhere, but wouldn't consider him a Hyde Rd specialist, just awesome everywhere once he hit his peak!

Gundersen won two blrc, was in a run off for another, equal track record holder, and was generally dominant there in the league.

Maybe not top 6 ever, but cetaonly close - I'm guessing other aces fans may debate whether he or Carter was the best visiting rider in the 80s.

Carter top of the eighties,(not in the NLRC) when Mort mugged him, Ivan,Ole,PC with Mort close were the best i see at Hyde Rd Nielsen, Gundo close after.

[lucifer sam 3,960]

In my era (80s) I'd go Carter gundersen Morton. Nielsen probably in there somewhere, but wouldn't consider him a Hyde Rd specialist, just awesome everywhere once he hit his peak!

Gundersen won two blrc, was in a run off for another, equal track record holder, and was generally dominant there in the league.

Maybe not top 6 ever, but cetaonly close - I'm guessing other aces fans may debate whether he or Carter was the best visiting rider in the 80s.

 

Weird thing is the only time I saw Gundersen at Hyde Road, he scored 4 points (1987 BLRC). Not sure what happened to Erik that day. Although he did better than Shawn Moran, who bizarrely failed to score.

 

That was the one Morton chucked away. He gated on Nielsen, and held him off, despite Hans throwing the kitchen sink at him, but then dropped a couple of points in what looked an easy ride. Hans made no more mistakes and won the meeting.

 

I agree that Hans wasn't necessarily a Hyde Road specialist (not in the same way he was a Monmore Green specialist or a Dudley Wood specialist, much to the utter dismay of the Cradley fans!), but I've seen the video of the 1986 BLRC and he destroyed the field that day, romping to a maximum.

 

All the best

Rob

[norbold 7,179]

Along with the other pc, Olsen and Carter? Or Mauger? Gundersen? Parker or fundin?

Out of interest, where would you place Ron Johnston in all this?

 

There are also a number of pre-War riders of course like Eric Langton and Max Grosskreutz