Cliffeboy 577 Posted October 22, 2016 (edited) Then you really missed out. The EL final at Belle Vue was just brilliant - read the thoughts of anyone that was there. Crowds most certainly weren't down for the play off meetings themselves - I suspect the crowd at Belle Vue was quite possibly double the best they had for the rest of the season. What you - and many others - can't seem to grasp is that speedway simply isn't in the position to turn down the huge proceeds that the play offs create. Better to have the play offs and some of clubs staying in the black than not have them and some teams going to the wall. Ok and what you and the other "remainers" don't seem to grasp is we do not think that clubs will fold or notice it too much if there were no play offs. What happens to the other clubs not in the play offs.....nothing. Ask the Belle Vue supporters what they would have preferred, being crowned Champions in their first season at their new stadium, or lose an entertaining match against a team that finished half a dozen points behind them, and with it the Championship. Edited October 22, 2016 by Cliffeboy 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
graz gp 184 Posted October 22, 2016 What were Sheffield supposed to do about riders that were injured. There is nothing any team can do but have guest or am i missing something. The only thing i can think of is having a squad system,but i don't no how that would work. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tigerblade 221 Posted October 22, 2016 What were Sheffield supposed to do about riders that were injured. Especially when two of them weren't even riding for us when they got injured!!!! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cityrebel 2,960 Posted October 22, 2016 Both the kent and eastbourne legs of the NL semi final pulled in excellent crowds. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Halifaxtiger 5,318 Posted October 23, 2016 (edited) Ok and what you and the other "remainers" don't seem to grasp is we do not think that clubs will fold or notice it too much if there were no play offs. What happens to the other clubs not in the play offs.....nothing. Ask the Belle Vue supporters what they would have preferred, being crowned Champions in their first season at their new stadium, or lose an entertaining match against a team that finished half a dozen points behind them, and with it the Championship. I have no doubt Belle Vue fans are gutted. To turn your argument round, I wonder what Wolverhampton fans would have preferred, winning the league after a superb meeting or finishing second. We have three EL clubs with reported or rumoured money problems. Up until last week, one PL club had closed, one was for sale and one was on the brink. Its fair to suggest that the sport is in desperate financial straits which may yet result in major changes over the winter. No-one would doubt that the play offs represent a major financial windfall as a result of increased attendances but they also have the effect of substantially reducing the number of dead rubbers. More money, less losses. Yet you (and others) choose to effectively reject that opportunity simply because it is a different system - one that, as has been said, has produced some superb speedway meetings. As to whether a club will go to the wall without play off money, its your turn to ask a Belle Vue. I have no knowledge of their money problems (although I am aware they haven't been paying riders) but I do know that the play off final drew a 4,000 crowd with probable receipts of about £100k. Do you think that gives them a better chance of coming to the tapes in 2017 or not ? Edited October 23, 2016 by Halifaxtiger 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GS550 449 Posted October 23, 2016 (edited) You could just as easily argue that had Berge and Garrity been available the other night at Sheffield, they would have won by far more in that meeting. I know from a fan's point of view the play offs are a joke, but folk were giving up on the sport long before the play offs were brought in. In the league fixture when Sheffield had their own riders, including Stead and Berge, they got hammered at Glasgow. Play-offs: no point in sickening the hard core support though, that's what the play-offs system is doing. Try explaining the play-off system to others at work or in the pub. They are astounded and find the whole thing laughable when you try to explain to them that whoever finishes top of the league aren't crowned league champions. The format lacks credibility within the wider public. Fair play to Sheffield if they win it as they've done nothing wrong, they've played by the rules as they currently stand. Edited October 23, 2016 by justere2cgoodspeedway 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Halifaxtiger 5,318 Posted October 23, 2016 In the league fixture when Sheffield had their own riders, including Stead and Berge, they got hammered at Glasgow. Play-offs: no point in sickening the hard core support though, that's what the play-offs system is doing. Try explaining the play-off system to others at work or in the pub. They are astounded and find the whole thing laughable when you try to explain to them that whoever finishes top of the league aren't crowned league champions. The format lacks credibility within the wider public. Fair play to Sheffield if they win it as they've done nothing wrong, they've played by the rules as they currently stand. Football supporters ? Ask them about what happens in the Championship and Leagues 1 & 2 at the end of the season at Wembley. That, they would loudly say, is different - which it is, just. But it can still mean that a team that finishes third in the Championship is denied entry to the Premier League (and that loss is indescribable) and a team that finishes sixth goes up. I doubt if a Rugby League supporter would laugh because they have exactly the same thing. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chewbacca 653 Posted October 23, 2016 What happens in football is that the team that wins the league wins the league 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scotchopper 312 Posted October 23, 2016 In the league fixture when Sheffield had their own riders, including Stead and Berge, they got hammered at Glasgow. Play-offs: no point in sickening the hard core support though, that's what the play-offs system is doing. Try explaining the play-off system to others at work or in the pub. They are astounded and find the whole thing laughable when you try to explain to them that whoever finishes top of the league aren't crowned league champions. The format lacks credibility within the wider public. Fair play to Sheffield if they win it as they've done nothing wrong, they've played by the rules as they currently stand. This is just nonsense play offs are the norm in every sport. In fact football is the only major sport that doesn't use them to decide the champions and it does use them for promotion and has had some unbelievable matches in the play offs. Everyone knows the rules at the start of the season so it is an even playing field. An example is that Edinburgh had to rebuild this season losing 3 key riders after 2 brilliant seasons. They took a chance on 2 novices with the plan that by august/September these guys would be up to speed and we would be competitive in the play offs with a chance of the title. For Dan Bewley this was better than the plan and if he had stayed fit we would have been a lot closer. Let's be honest if there were no play offs 10 team's season would have been over in July with a number of meaningless fixtures, only Somerset, Glasgow and Newcastle were capable of top spot. Play offs meant that 8 or 9 teams were still in with a chance until mid September. I have been lucky enough to be at a number of play off matches and they have been huge crowds, great experiences and atmospheres and the Somerset match where we won with a 5-1 in the last race will rate as one of the top moments in my life forever. Even the season we lost we took 3 buses and over 100 fans to Somerset on a Tuesday or Wednesday night. We had a great night and whilst disappointed wouldn't have missed it. I was planning on going to the semi if we had made it this year but unfortunately we didn't turn up at Ipswich. Good luck to both teams in thr final and may the best team win. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cliffeboy 577 Posted October 23, 2016 Football supporters ? Ask them about what happens in the Championship and Leagues 1 & 2 at the end of the season at Wembley. That, they would loudly say, is different - which it is, just. But it can still mean that a team that finishes third in the Championship is denied entry to the Premier League (and that loss is indescribable) and a team that finishes sixth goes up. I doubt if a Rugby League supporter would laugh because they have exactly the same thing. Not exactly how it happens though is it HT. The team that finishes top are the Champions. The runners up remain the runners up and are also promoted. Teams 3 to 6 then do the play offs to secure the third promotion position. So the teams that have ground out the most points over the 46 games go up, with a little playoff comp for third to sixth. Where this would be barmy would be if the top 6 had to compete in a play off for promotion and be declared champs as well so the sixth place team could go up and be declared Champions, sound familiar. The three PL teams that are in trouble at the moment ( think it's two now ), I don't know their financial state but I doubt that being in the rip offs would have made much difference. They appear to have an attendance problem on a weekly basis, a couple of good gates ain't gonna make much difference. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scotchopper 312 Posted October 23, 2016 As I said though CB football is the only sport that doesn't use them to decide the champions but they compete to finish in the top 6 meaning a more meaningful games up to the end of the season. In the premiership there is the battle for European spots. In the spfl they have the league split so all sports are trying to bring in measures to make it meaningful. Even in international football they are bringing in the new UEFA nations league to get more competitive matches rather than friendlies I'm not claiming play offs are perfect but anyone who says speedway is a laughing stock because of the play offs doesn't know what they are talking about. It has many problems but play offs isn't one of them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mac101 1,201 Posted October 23, 2016 As I said though CB football is the only sport that doesn't use them to decide the champions but they compete to finish in the top 6 meaning a more meaningful games up to the end of the season. In the premiership there is the battle for European spots. In the spfl they have the league split so all sports are trying to bring in measures to make it meaningful. Even in international football they are bringing in the new UEFA nations league to get more competitive matches rather than friendlies I'm not claiming play offs are perfect but anyone who says speedway is a laughing stock because of the play offs doesn't know what they are talking about. It has many problems but play offs isn't one of them. No play offs in football but they wouldn't borrow other teams players if there was Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scotchopper 312 Posted October 23, 2016 The guest system is one of the flaws of speedway, not arguing against that but difficult to find an alternative and you certainly can't just change it for the play offs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spin king 1,923 Posted October 23, 2016 The guest system is one of the flaws of speedway, not arguing against that but difficult to find an alternative and you certainly can't just change it for the play offs. In a sport that is obsessed with making every team as equal as possible it is very difficult to see any alternative. The only other alternative is squads, and with riders been paid on performance again I don't see how that would be possible. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
June01 270 Posted October 23, 2016 It is rather ironic that the only reason Play-offs were brought in to the PL in the first place was that SKY said they would show the Final LIVE, then changed their minds. Despite the fact SKY show a few meetings through the season, they have no interest, it seems, in showing the 'important' PL stuff!! Don't feel singled out as they have no interest in showing much of the EL either. If you're not Wolves or Poole you apparently don't matter. Same with any big company - they do what they want and to hell with everyone else. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
