Gresham 928 Posted December 7, 2016 (edited) You contradict yourself.You admit doing so would "probably piss the Clubs off" then say i shouldn't make any difference.Why would it "piss the Clubs off"if it isn't for the revenue reason? The fact is if people don't want to spend money on a programme why would they want to spend more on the Star,just for a printed racecard?The fact of the matter is the Star wouldn't exist without speedway and just the idea of them competing for revenue with the clubs is self defeating. Yep...totally agree. Would be absolutely farcical for the SS to print a race card. Like you say...SS can't live without speedway. Wouldn't it be a shame if SS were to print a race card and British speedway to close...just because of printing a race card. Just goes to show the small margins speedway runs on...the difference between a club running and the non sales of a programme. Said with tongue firmly in cheek.... God forbid fans have an option, and buying the SS with race card and spending the saved money on a pint instead. No profit in that at all. Do fans buy a programme out of habit, for the info or the race card? Habit and card I'd guess. Why do fans buy SS? Habit, info? Bit a both I'd guess. Wonder what makes more profit for a club...food and drink or programme sales? I'd guess food and drink...open to correction. I'd get rid of programmes altogether, just provide an A4 printed race card if needs be at a £1. I'd have a Club App that you paid for, that automatically updated scores for you as the meeting progressed. Sponsors can still pay to advertise and news can be kept up to the minute. At least it would keep the younger generation interested between heats. Have a treasure hunt for the kids giving clues between heats. Comps and updates and offers between heats for the adults. Make it interactive so fans can voice their feelings from the terraces etc. You've only got to see peoples heads in their phones between heats. Not for the older generation...but maybe a solution for the new to keep them occupied. Still think the SS should print a race card though. Edited December 7, 2016 by Gresham Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wjm 261 Posted December 7, 2016 I'd get rid of programmes altogether Why? That doesn’t even begin to make sense, there is a market for programmes, people buy them, they generate income. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iris123 20,990 Posted December 7, 2016 (edited) Yep...totally agree. The point you seem to miss although you yourself stated it is,it might "piss the Clubs off".Now you do that and it is obvious their margins are fairly small if they make a profit at all.But to even attempt to take revenue from a Club and what does the Club do?It bans you from selling the Star at their stadium.Great idea i don't think.Tell you what if the Clubs make so much money from food and drink wouldn't it be a super idea to boost the Stars profit if they also start selling beer,cola and sandwiches at a lower price than they do in the stadium....... Edited December 7, 2016 by iris123 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gresham 928 Posted December 7, 2016 Why? That doesn’t even begin to make sense, there is a market for programmes, people buy them, they generate income. How much actual profit do they make, compared to printing an A4 race card? That would still generate income and would be far less outlay. You can still sell advertising space on them. Would save outlay costs and time in printing, but still provide the necessary service of a race card. The point you seem to miss although you yourself stated it is,it might "piss the Clubs off".Now you do that and it is obvious their margins are fairly small if they make a profit at all.But to even attempt to take revenue from a Club and what does the Club do?It bans you from selling the Star at their stadium.Great idea i don't think.Tell you what if the Clubs make so much money from food and drink wouldn't it be a super idea to boost the Stars profit if they also start selling beer,cola and sandwiches at a lower price than they do in the stadium....... Why do the SS print a race card for the GP's then if it's such a problem? I had a family at the British GP filling in their SS instead of programme to save costs. Surely the SS would be doing the GP circuit a disservice if it was such a problem? Less and less programmes in all sports are sold, because it's old news. Speedway just needs a race card imo. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wjm 261 Posted December 7, 2016 (edited) How much actual profit do they make, compared to printing an A4 race card? That would still generate income and would be far less outlay. You can still sell advertising space on them. Would save outlay costs and time in printing, but still provide the necessary service of a race card. Far less advertising space, no bespoke full page adverts. I would also add that while you are evidently not a fan of a programme there's clearly a market that is, and they do sell, so thus discontinuing a product that generates revenue would just be bad business sense. Edited December 7, 2016 by Minor Interest 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iris123 20,990 Posted December 7, 2016 (edited) Why do the SS print a race card for the GP's then if it's such a problem? I had a family at the British GP filling in their SS instead of programme to save costs. Surely the SS would be doing the GP circuit a disservice if it was such a problem? Less and less programmes in all sports are sold, because it's old news. Speedway just needs a race card imo. Look i am not going to keep agruing the toss with you back and forwards as you seem to love,but It might have escaped your notice that the GPs are mainly in foreign countries,so don't affect local Clubs.It might also be the fact that i think the company that does the programmes is also the same one that runs the Star.Even if it isn't it only means 1 GP in the UK and presumably they have no trouble from BSI as they work closely together.I was always under the impression the print was more for stay at home,watch it on tv fans anyway or why produce one for each GP Now you yourself stated clearly it might "piss off Clubs".Now tell us why that might be,please?And is it worth it? Edited December 7, 2016 by iris123 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gresham 928 Posted December 7, 2016 Look i am not going to keep agruing the toss with you back and forwards as you seem to love,but It might have escaped your notice that the GPs are mainly in foreign countries,so don't affect local Clubs.It might also be the fact that i think the company that does the programmes is also the same one that runs the Star.Even if it isn't it only means 1 GP in the UK and presumably they have no trouble from BSI as they work closely together.I was always under the impression the print was more for stay at home,watch it on tv fans anyway or why produce one for each GP Now you yourself stated clearly it might "piss off Clubs".Now tell us why that might be,please?And is it worth it? Like I said...'it might'...not 'it definitely does'...plus I'm not arguing, just debating on a forum with you. Christ...so many on here gets so friggin aggressive if you debate points. Perhaps Philip would be able to give a better insight into the benefits or not of a weekly race card. Perhaps Programmes, a printed race card on A4, and the SS with race card could all sit happily together...as well an updated club app etc. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wjm 261 Posted December 7, 2016 Christ...so many on here gets so friggin aggressive if you debate points. No one has been even remotely aggressive with you. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iris123 20,990 Posted December 7, 2016 Like I said...'it might'...not 'it definitely does'.. Ok,but i asked why you thought "it might" and you still haven't given us the answer as to what made you think that Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ciderman 100 Posted December 7, 2016 Just read about the debts ran up by the Plymouth promotion in Speedway Star £291,062.76p!!! I thought that the BSPA had a system in place to check on the financial situation of clubs.? How can a PL club run up that level of debt, With no riders debts apparen?t. A bit of Speedway Star investigation would be appreciated. I know there are legal issues with what could be printed, but surely there is a story there! How about a feature on the costs to run speedway, compete in GP's etc. Seems like a lot of money is being paid out with the reported debts to riders of Indianera etc. £77,000 etc to individual riders, what sort of deals are they on etc -not sure how many meetings they ride in Sweden in a season but thats a high figure to be owed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gresham 928 Posted December 7, 2016 Just read about the debts ran up by the Plymouth promotion in Speedway Star £291,062.76p!!! I thought that the BSPA had a system in place to check on the financial situation of clubs.? How can a PL club run up that level of debt, With no riders debts apparen?t. A bit of Speedway Star investigation would be appreciated. I know there are legal issues with what could be printed, but surely there is a story there! How about a feature on the costs to run speedway, compete in GP's etc. Seems like a lot of money is being paid out with the reported debts to riders of Indianera etc. £77,000 etc to individual riders, what sort of deals are they on etc -not sure how many meetings they ride in Sweden in a season but thats a high figure to be owed. I think the worm is starting to turn...some of these 'Top' riders are on massive amounts. Whether they all get paid is another thing. you've got to feel sorry for fans of the likes of Plymouth. They see their Club struggle...and then watch some golden balls rider in the GP on tv earning more than their club make. It truly is a farce. I'd be happy for all these top earners to bugger off to Europe and let us start from scratch again. It's got to a point where the uncertainty of Clubs is at the forefront of every season. What fan is going to invest his time and money, getting hooked into a sport or club, knowing it is likely to close in the near future? They are going to look elsewhere, at other activities and hobbies/sports that are sustainable for their long term enjoyment and pleasure. It's only the diehards that are keeping it just afloat at the moment. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The White Knight 9,039 Posted December 7, 2016 I think the worm is starting to turn...some of these 'Top' riders are on massive amounts. Whether they all get paid is another thing. you've got to feel sorry for fans of the likes of Plymouth. They see their Club struggle...and then watch some golden balls rider in the GP on tv earning more than their club make. It truly is a farce. I'd be happy for all these top earners to bugger off to Europe and let us start from scratch again. It's got to a point where the uncertainty of Clubs is at the forefront of every season. What fan is going to invest his time and money, getting hooked into a sport or club, knowing it is likely to close in the near future? They are going to look elsewhere, at other activities and hobbies/sports that are sustainable for their long term enjoyment and pleasure. It's only the diehards that are keeping it just afloat at the moment. I have a certain sympathy with that viewpoint. If Clubs are in such dire straights - why are they employing Riders that they simply cannot afford? Total madness. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bruno 1,790 Posted December 7, 2016 I wonder if the promotors run there family finances the same way as some of them run there clubs. I would hope not. Running a club ,your house or even dare I say the country should be the same principal . Only spend what you can afford 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StevePark 2,781 Posted December 7, 2016 Just read about the debts ran up by the Plymouth promotion in Speedway Star £291,062.76p!!! I thought that the BSPA had a system in place to check on the financial situation of clubs.? How can a PL club run up that level of debt, With no riders debts apparen?t. A bit of Speedway Star investigation would be appreciated. I know there are legal issues with what could be printed, but surely there is a story there! How about a feature on the costs to run speedway, compete in GP's etc. Seems like a lot of money is being paid out with the reported debts to riders of Indianera etc. £77,000 etc to individual riders, what sort of deals are they on etc -not sure how many meetings they ride in Sweden in a season but thats a high figure to be owed. Every club is going to be different (stadium rentals) and points money paid. Also will the BSPA allow us to know how much a referee is paid? On the racecard being printed in the Speedway Star, I really don't get that one. Either you buy a prog (varying from free to £2.50ish), or print your own off the PC/Laptop (basic cost) or buy a Speedway Star (£2.90 currently). For those who don't buy a SS, it's not going to increase the sales of a SS as it's at minimum 40p more than buying a prog., so they aren't going to buy one just because there is a racecard in it, surely? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gresham 928 Posted December 7, 2016 Every club is going to be different (stadium rentals) and points money paid. Also will the BSPA allow us to know how much a referee is paid? On the racecard being printed in the Speedway Star, I really don't get that one. Either you buy a prog (varying from free to £2.50ish), or print your own off the PC/Laptop (basic cost) or buy a Speedway Star (£2.90 currently). For those who don't buy a SS, it's not going to increase the sales of a SS as it's at minimum 40p more than buying a prog., so they aren't going to buy one just because there is a racecard in it, surely? I'd buy the SS with race card printed, rather than a programme, and printing out my own race card. Because you are actually getting something worth reading, and for the sake of 40p extra, it saves printing out my own. Why pay £2.50 for a programme that is basically a race card, with a load of adverts and week old news? It's not value for money or interesting, when an A4 race card could be printed, and have the same amount of adverts sold, around the outside of the race card, and two full A4 pages on the back. Print that and sell it for a quid...I should imagine the mark up would be more profitable than the costs involved in producing a programme. You could actually do it in house, instead of involving printers etc. £2.90 for approx. 50 pages of Speedway news and stories, and a race card, would be value for money and more interesting to read between heats etc. It would be nice to have the option of all three tbh. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
