New Science 1,059 Posted December 7, 2016 I wonder if the promotors run there family finances the same way as some of them run there clubs. I would hope not. Running a club ,your house or even dare I say the country should be the same principal . Only spend what you can afford Then clubs end up with a poor team and we know these days that fans won't come to watch a team losing every week. Promoters probably try a fraction to speculate to accumulate. As we know from experience this doesn't work every time, If only supporters could except their promotions limitations and turn out to watch their team regardless of results. I think if the quality of speedway was good they would but as we know that's not always the case. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wjm 261 Posted December 8, 2016 (edited) It would be nice to have the option of all three tbh. The option of all 3 being what sorry? It reads like you are saying it would be nice to have the option to buy a programme, buy a speedway star and print out an A4 race card, an option that already exists. Edited December 8, 2016 by Minor Interest Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve roberts 9,246 Posted December 8, 2016 The option of all 3 being what sorry? It reads like you are saying it would be nice to have the option to buy a programme, buy a speedway star and print out an A4 race card, an option that already exists. I enjoyed collecting programmes and had a vast selection of them (Britain, Europe and further afield). Wish that I had hung onto them now but due to re-location and lack of space that really wasn't a viable option. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gresham 928 Posted December 8, 2016 The option of all 3 being what sorry? It reads like you are saying it would be nice to have the option to buy a programme, buy a speedway star and print out an A4 race card, an option that already exists. We have two options right now...buy a programme or print out race card. The third option...SS with race card printed inside. The argument that it would affect people buying programmes is flawed, as people already have the option to print out a race card for free. Some people buy/do all three. Buy SS, buy a programme, print out race card and fill it in, as they don't want to write in their programmes as they collect them. Some buy SS and just print out a race card and don't buy a programme. Some buy a programme and not SS. SS with a generic race card printed in it, is just another option. Wish i'd never mentioned it would piss Clubs off, as in hindsight, it probably wouldn't. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wjm 261 Posted December 8, 2016 (edited) We have two options right now...buy a programme or print out race card. The third option...SS with race card printed inside. The argument that it would affect people buying programmes is flawed, as people already have the option to print out a race card for free. Some people buy/do all three. Buy SS, buy a programme, print out race card and fill it in, as they don't want to write in their programmes as they collect them. Some buy SS and just print out a race card and don't buy a programme. Some buy a programme and not SS. SS with a generic race card printed in it, is just another option. Wish i'd never mentioned it would piss Clubs off, as in hindsight, it probably wouldn't. I find your logic quite flawed, it appears you wish for a bespoke service tailored entirely to what you want, and in doing so want clubs to abolish a revenue stream (programmes) for no apparent reason other than you not being a fan of them? You want the Star to include race card insert. I buy the star but have no interest in that, and I assume many others wouldn’t either? What use is it to me? (same as a programme to you and thus it is ok to poo poo it?) A bit of paper I can print out for free on the internet? That sounds like a way to intentionally dent subscriptions rather than increase them. An overhead the Star would be paying that would be of use to a minimal % of subscribers, blank paper....wow. That is before considering a lot of fans who attend speedway are probably not that fussed for the Star because they don’t support speedway as such, they support the club and track they are attending and want to support that club by buying a programme from them. If they do that the money goes to that club, unlike if they buy a speedway star for a race card, where the money doesn’t go to the club. Or are they are a new fan stuck with an A4 bit of paper with adverts and no info, or having to buy an entire magazine to get a empty race card that they have to fill out every name in, every field, of that bit of paper for an entire meeting and read about other clubs rather than the track they are attending, that is a pretty rank first time experience. I say this without a hint of aggression by the way, and I am simply saying it as part of an engaged discussion, but these ideas sound absolutely terrible, it is removing choice and variety for very little return and actually consciously cutting revenue streams Edited December 8, 2016 by Minor Interest 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
teaboy279 1,038 Posted December 8, 2016 Because it is mainly 'Old Codgers' who go to Speedway these days. :sad:Where does this old crap come from, you should go to a kent meeting. Whilst there are many seniors watching, and all the old Crusaders fans.But I would estimate that half our crowds are under 40. And wold say at least 75 under 10's are at every meeting. Really don't know where this concept has come from, suppose people will jump on any old bandwagon rather then open thier eyes. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
foamfence 2,917 Posted December 8, 2016 Where does this old crap come from, you should go to a kent meeting. Whilst there are many seniors watching, and all the old Crusaders fans. But I would estimate that half our crowds are under 40. And wold say at least 75 under 10's are at every meeting. Really don't know where this concept has come from, suppose people will jump on any old bandwagon rather then open thier eyes. Kent sounds to be something of an exception then. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bruno 1,790 Posted December 8, 2016 Glasgow as well Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Voice Of Reason 2,124 Posted December 8, 2016 I'm not sure that club sponsors would be too delighted with the news that programmes were going to replaced with a race-card in the SS. That's a great incentive to give them isn't it - when, as a promoter, you are striving to renew your sponsorship deal! Speedway programmes are pretty naff; and they more or less always have been. But I have always bought one, even at away tracks - because it's putting a little bit of extra cash back towards that particular club. Speedway Star - still buy it occasionally - if and when I see it at a track. To be honest, I always much preferred The Speedway Mail. Being produced in Walthamstow, it always covered the Hackney Hawks in much greater depth. I also preferred the Newspaper format more than a magazine. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gresham 928 Posted December 8, 2016 I find your logic quite flawed, it appears you wish for a bespoke service tailored entirely to what you want, and in doing so want clubs to abolish a revenue stream (programmes) for no apparent reason other than you not being a fan of them? You want the Star to include race card insert. I buy the star but have no interest in that, and I assume many others wouldn’t either? What use is it to me? (same as a programme to you and thus it is ok to poo poo it?) A bit of paper I can print out for free on the internet? That sounds like a way to intentionally dent subscriptions rather than increase them. An overhead the Star would be paying that would be of use to a minimal % of subscribers, blank paper....wow. That is before considering a lot of fans who attend speedway are probably not that fussed for the Star because they don’t support speedway as such, they support the club and track they are attending and want to support that club by buying a programme from them. If they do that the money goes to that club, unlike if they buy a speedway star for a race card, where the money doesn’t go to the club. Or are they are a new fan stuck with an A4 bit of paper with adverts and no info, or having to buy an entire magazine to get a empty race card that they have to fill out every name in, every field, of that bit of paper for an entire meeting and read about other clubs rather than the track they are attending, that is a pretty rank first time experience. I say this without a hint of aggression by the way, and I am simply saying it as part of an engaged discussion, but these ideas sound absolutely terrible, it is removing choice and variety for very little return and actually consciously cutting revenue streams Thanks for your detailed reply. Firstly...I've never said you've aimed aggression...it was aimed at another poster, who's tone was far from friendly. Which I assure you, yours is. If you read my posts...you will see that I've suggested all three options could be offered and people could make their choice. What harm would it do, if the SS was to print a double page spread generic race card in it's weekly production? Fans...as I've now reiterated a few times now, I don't know how you've missed them, would have the choice. A choice of 3 options. 1 Buy a programme 2 Print a race card for free 3 Buy SS with race card printed inside. Or, as I've made pretty clearly in my posts...options of doing all 3 or variations of that. I really can't see what your problem is? I'm not sure how I can make it more clearer tbh. You've clearly missed my point. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wjm 261 Posted December 8, 2016 (edited) I'd get rid of programmes altogether I'm not sure how I can make it more clearer tbh. You've clearly missed my point. Who has a problem? Given you said the above about getting rid of programmes all together I thought your point was that you wanted to get rid of programmes all together, with the removal of programmes all together fans wouldn't have the choice to buy a programme, or at least that is my understanding of what would happen if you got rid of programmes - and thus if you don't actually want to get rid of programmes all together it seems odd to engage in a conversation about getting rid of programmes all together or making the point that you would want get rid of programmes all together, despite your point being that you actually don't want to get rid of programmes all together.... A roundabout of nonsense. Edited December 8, 2016 by Minor Interest Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gresham 928 Posted December 8, 2016 Who has a problem? Given you said the above about getting rid of programmes all together I thought your point was that you wanted to get rid of programmes all together, with the removal of programmes all together fans wouldn't have the choice to buy a programme, or at least that is my understanding of what would happen if you got rid of programmes - and thus if you don't actually want to get rid of programmes all together it seems odd to engage in a conversation about getting rid of programmes all together or making the point that you would want get rid of programmes all together, despite your point being that you actually don't want to get rid of programmes all together.... A roundabout of nonsense. With respect...the conversation through the thread evolved....people (like you ) said they still enjoy buying programmes. Hence why I added in further posts 'make it all three options'. This isn't a game of scoring points or one upmanship. It's about debating and chatting and putting ideas out there. If someone puts up a good enough reason to keep programmes, then why not take it on board and listen? Like I did...hence saying...'why not have three options for fans'. I personally don't think programmes are good value for money...but you do. I personally would get rid of them...but like you said, people still enjoy buying them. So...I've listened, and reasoned that there is still a market for them. All I've done is asked for there to be a third option available. Anyway...from your last post, it seems you feel smug in some way, of proving a point...hence the emotions added. I'm happy for you Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wjm 261 Posted December 8, 2016 All I've done is asked for there to be a third option available. An option that already is available. - that's the smug one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gresham 928 Posted December 8, 2016 An option that already is available. - that's the smug one. I should have remembered this quote before getting into a discussion with you... 'Never argue with Stupid people, as they will drag you down to their level, and beat you with experience'. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iris123 20,992 Posted December 8, 2016 I should have remembered this quote before getting into a discussion with you... 'Never argue with Stupid people, as they will drag you down to their level, and beat you with experience'. Oh dear.Talks about aggressive posts then is abusive!!!! I did ask about 3 times for you to explain why your suggestion would "piss Clubs off".You never did get round to answering,probably because you knew it would take revenue from them. If you want a racecard in the Star why not print one off,buy the Star and then stick it inside.Job done.No-one pissed off Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
