The Goalposts Have Moved So...

[stevebrum 6,829]

?

If every current pl team and every cl team formed a 'big league' it would need less than 130 riders. It is quite stupid to say that there aren't enough riders, isn't it?

There aren't enough riders to fill both the premiership and championship teams this season, or are you telling me I'm wrong? ?

The NL wouldn't be part of one big league so I'm only using the teams we currently have in those leagues.

We might gain more teams like Birmingham and Eastbourne which might help but how on earth is it possible to fill all the teams currently in both the top 2 leagues with one club only riders when we can't do that now??

so no, I don't reckon there are enough riders to fill all the teams positions. We have 3 riders out of work at present yet how many are sharing roles in the top 2 leagues? I make it 21.

so where are these other 18 riders coming from??? The NL (18 riders won't be of reserve standard imho).

so, where are these riders coming from??

still think it's stupid?

Edited March 4, 2017 by stevebrum

[dump that clutch 630]

There aren't enough riders to fill out one big league hence why doubling up is part of the game. Thank god because one big league would be the last nail in the coffin of British speedway.

you say that Steve, but this year the powers to be have made that very structure possible by dumbing down the top league even further.

I feel it will happen sooner than you think.

[stevebrum 6,829]

you say that Steve, but this year the powers to be have made that very structure possible by dumbing down the top league even further.

I feel it will happen sooner than you think.

The indications are that it's going that way but I believe the promoters are keen to keep the leagues separate.

[brianbuck 928]

This "can't make it pay if I have only one team" call is just a parrot cry by the riders. Every week we see National League riders roll into the pits in vans big enough to live in and start unloading three bikes or more from them. A dose of reality is needed here - none of this is necessary and the riders need to start looking at living within their means if they are not to eventually price themselves out altogether!

[WestGorton1884 621]

No, what is making a mockery of the sport is that riders can have more than one team spot in the first place.

 

In my opinion, this is the one thing above all others which has/will kill the sport in this county.

A young British rider cannot get a team spot in his own country ?

I'd say that more than makes a mockery of the sport , its embarrassing !

Edited March 4, 2017 by WestGorton1884

[GWC 495]

King Cook Masters shouldn't be doubling down

[stevebrum 6,829]

Of course there are enough riders, 18 teams needs just 126 riders. The list of riders on the bspa website has around 150 names on it, you can take maybe 10 names off the list but that still leaves 140 before any new riders are added. Has there ever been a season which didn't include a new overseas rider? Okay there would probably be a few average journeymen like Skorniki and a dodgy pole or two like the lad Coventry had last season but to suggest there wouldn't be 126 riders available is stupid.

 

Then it's just a case of setting a sensible points limit, which would be around 48 for one league. Two leagues make it a little bit more difficult but a PL limit of 49 and a CL limit of 39 would probably do it.

 

It would obviously mean some teams would end up with say Kennett or Fricke or Tungate or even Harris as their number 1 but I can't see a problem with that.

 

Doubling up just makes it look like there wouldn't be enough riders.

Makes you wonder why teams struggle to fill places without double uppers which has littered teams for several seasons then if it's apparently that easy.

If it was as easy as you suggested then why on earth do we need double up riders??

The truth is within the quality of riders on the BSPA list, what is stupid is suggesting it's so simple to divide the riders on the list out to make one rider teams. If it was possible they would already be doing it.

There aren't enough top quality riders available to make the team strengths even and meaningful.

King Cook Masters shouldn't be doubling down

The riders will say they can't make it pay by doing one league in the UK.

I can see several riders quiting because they won't be able to make it pay.

[Red Flag 454]

This "can't make it pay if I have only one team" call is just a parrot cry by the riders. Every week we see National League riders roll into the pits in vans big enough to live in and start unloading three bikes or more from them. A dose of reality is needed here - none of this is necessary and the riders need to start looking at living within their means if they are not to eventually price themselves out altogether!

I couldn't agree more, I recently had a conversation with an MDL standard rider and was asking him about his plans over the winter/ next season, he had been part of the Poultec scheme but didn't bother now as it cost him fuel to get there..... And his next line was I need a new van, I asked why didn't he buy a bike trailer for the car and spend the saved money on upgrading his equipment to which he replied "I need to look good arriving at the track in a good van" and that for me sums it up

[brianbuck 928]

When I first began following speedway in 1953, at Birmingham, the riders had one bike each and the club provided a track spare. There was also a fully fitted workshop located within the stadium and the club employed a professional mechanic who looked after the bikes of all the Birmingham riders and kept the track spare in top condition.

 

Nothing at all wrong with a system like that and no reason at all why it shouldn't be re-introduced.

[Halifaxtiger 5,318]

Of course there are enough riders, 18 teams needs just 126 riders. The list of riders on the bspa website has around 150 names on it, you can take maybe 10 names off the list but that still leaves 140 before any new riders are added. Has there ever been a season which didn't include a new overseas rider? Okay there would probably be a few average journeymen like Skorniki and a dodgy pole or two like the lad Coventry had last season but to suggest there wouldn't be 126 riders available is stupid.

 

Then it's just a case of setting a sensible points limit, which would be around 48 for one league. Two leagues make it a little bit more difficult but a PL limit of 49 and a CL limit of 39 would probably do it.

 

It would obviously mean some teams would end up with say Kennett or Fricke or Tungate or even Harris as their number 1 but I can't see a problem with that.

 

Doubling up just makes it look like there wouldn't be enough riders.

 

I think Steve is right. A quick count up of Championship riders doubling up and there are about 20. Take in the boys doubling up between the NL & SGBC and it becomes 30.

 

Allowing the latter, that's 20 new riders we have to find but its not just that because those 20 new riders have to fit in with the league structure.

 

While there are 150 names on the BSPA website, they include Connor Locke, Richard Andrews, David Mason, Tony Atkin, David Speight, Anders Rowe, Tom Woolley and many more. With respect to those riders, if British Speedway had to start drafting them into its top flights it really would be in trouble.

.

 

The riders will say they can't make it pay by doing one league in the UK.

 

And yet over half of those in the Championship only do one league here. Take away the NL boys doubling up and it becomes over two-thirds.

 

I think Brian is right. With the exception of the top boys, speedway is not a full time occupation even in the season yet some treat it as though it is or expect it to be so.

 

Nor has that ever been the case. I have cited elsewhere the case of Tony Davey, a 9.00 rider in the British League of the 1970's who struggled to make it pay.

 

While I am not opposed to doubling up, it has become (for some) simply a method of boosting their earnings rather than a tool by which younger riders can gain experience and knowledge.

Edited March 5, 2017 by Halifaxtiger

[CookieIpswich 249]

This is why if it becomed one big league its restricted to 16 teams, how they choose the 16 is another question but I'd pick the 16 with the best facilities, now can anyone name them?

 

I am concerned about youngsters having 3 bikes plus van etc it's a joke

 

I've been involved in MMA and at british level the amateurs and professionals all have jobs, all pay for their training etc and some pros get about £200-£2000 a fight max but they don't compete 4 times a week

[THE DEAN MACHINE 4,771]

When I first began following speedway in 1953, at Birmingham, the riders had one bike each and the club provided a track spare. There was also a fully fitted workshop located within the stadium and the club employed a professional mechanic who looked after the bikes of all the Birmingham riders and kept the track spare in top condition.

 

Nothing at all wrong with a system like that and no reason at all why it shouldn't be re-introduced.

i said a similar sort of thing on my Facebook page a few weeks ago along with other ideas /thoughts etc , I got told I was being negative and I was seeing the sport through rose tinted glasses and that was the past etc ,on another thought I had about if teams or riders should pay for mechanics I got shot down well and truly by one of today's stars , I beginning to think it's a lost cause

[Halifaxtiger 5,318]

Non of the names you mention appear on the list I was referring to called '2017 Team Building Averages - Numerical'

 

http://www.speedwaygb.co/elteamissues16

 

which I believe only includes riders who have already ridden for a team in the top two leagues and could obviously be considered for a place in a team in a combined league.

 

Even if teams could only build from that list there are enough riders to form 18 teams in a combined league and the points limit would only need to drop by around 2 points to make it work. In any case it is inconceivable that no other overseas riders would become available, we've even seen an old retired rider tempted back for another go.

 

We don't NEED doubling up and when they fully implement my vision for the future and there's one big league (was it really the sky deal that stopped it happening this year?) it won't be an option anyway.

There are 150 names mentioned.

 

They include :

 

Iverson, Jonsson, Woffinden, Lindback, Zagar, Ulamek, Gjedde,Stead, Karlsson, Walasek, Fisher,Lyager, Skidmore,Bager,Boxall,Mear,Hummel, Karger,Lanham, Castagna,Holub, Sissis,Greenwood, Halsey.

 

GP riders, retired riders, some I haven't even heard of.

 

Draft in a few NL boys (although some are already in that list) and maybe a few newbies and you might just do it. That, however, depends on all of them fitting in and being willing to ride in the UK and, of course, none getting injured.

 

Very, very easy to point to numbers and say there are enough. Much, much harder to make sure that it works.

[stevebrum 6,829]

Non of the names you mention appear on the list I was referring to called '2017 Team Building Averages - Numerical'http://www.speedwaygb.co/elteamissues16

which I believe only includes riders who have already ridden for a team in the top two leagues and could obviously be considered for a place in a team in a combined league.

Even if teams could only build from that list there are enough riders to form 18 teams in a combined league and the points limit would only need to drop by around 2 points to make it work. In any case it is inconceivable that no other overseas riders would become available, we've even seen an old retired rider tempted back for another go.

We don't NEED doubling up and when they fully implement my vision for the future and there's one big league (was it really the sky deal that stopped it happening this year?) it won't be an option anyway.

The list you quoted has at least 36 riders who either have retired or chosen not to ride here including riders who are very much part time users of the top flight league.

We need doubling up riders to fill spots due to lack of quality riders wanting to ride here.

I will repeat, if it's that's easy to fill team spots with an abundance of riders why then do double up riders dominate both leagues??

It's very easy to quote a list and say this is the proof. A careful examination of the list shows up the flaw in the list itself.

God forbid one big league ever happens again you can take off several more big names who are unlikely to want to ride in it or clubs have the money or budget or points limit to include the likes of Holder, Doyle, Lindgren etc.

Even Less riders to choose from this list which is already outdated.

[brianbuck 928]

When the Provincial League was formed in 1960 everyone said at the time that there wouldn't be enough riders to staff 10 new teams, but as things turned out, none of the clubs had any problems in filling their sides. Accepted there were some very wide differentials in the strength of the clubs - Northern clubs tended to go for the riders who had been second halfers at Belle Vue or Bradford (and quite a few of them were in their mid 30's or even older) whilst Southern clubs went for many of the ex riders who had retired because the top league was too tough for them.

 

The bottom line though, was that the riders were there when needed.