British speedway is a joke.

[BV66 34]

The Play-Offs are nothing more than a Mini K O Cup competition, at one time it meant something finishing top of the seasons League, as you had been the most consistent and best team over a full season. Not like now when ringers can be brought in at the last moment, as riders become available from Poland, to strengthen up for the Play-Offs.

This year is even worse, as teams know who they are likely to meet, as 1st v 4th and 3rd v 2nd, so it might pay a team to throw a meeting to get a better chance in the semi finals. So no perk whatsoever for being top of the League.

Does Orion have a problem with the older generation, as if you disrespect them, and  take them off the crowd figures, speedway would be finished.

[orion 7,615]

2 minutes ago, BV66 said:

The Play-Offs are nothing more than a Mini K O Cup competition, at one time it meant something finishing top of the seasons League, as you had been the most consistent and best team over a full season. Not like now when ringers can be brought in at the last moment, as riders become available from Poland, to strengthen up for the Play-Offs.

This year is even worse, as teams know who they are likely to meet, as 1st v 4th and 3rd v 2nd, so it might pay a team to throw a meeting to get a better chance in the semi finals. So no perk whatsoever for being top of the League.

Does Orion have a problem with the older generation, as if you disrespect them, and  take them off the crowd figures, speedway would be finished.

Only when there reason for not liking something is because we never had it in our day. Rather that facts to back up there opinion. What ringers are you on about for the Play offs by the way ?

[moxey63 1,785]

 

50 minutes ago, orion said:

No matter what format know one knows before how its going to work out .But all the stats show the old system had more dead rubbers than the play off system making your point invalid .

Wasn't my point. It was chrismorton's, the thread starter.

[orion 7,615]

23 hours ago, moxey63 said:

Is it really worth carrying on with this play-off malarkey when the whole point of them is to create a bumper payout for clubs at the end? 1,000 more is nice, but how many of those fans don't attend the seven months leading up to them, in which six teams full of somebody else's rider chase four places? Not appealing.  

So that's not  you whowrote this then ?

[Roger Jacobs 554]

4 hours ago, steve roberts said:

...not Premier League Football however where the team that finishes top become champions. Not sure if the lower divisions apply the same criteria?

You can imagine the outcry if the team that finished top in the Football Premier League weren't crowned champions?

Football is absolutely no comparison - even so, the Premier League has positions for Champions League and Europa League, etc. to play for, as well as the race for relegation, and even prize money for final positions, so they have a lot to play for.

Speedway’s Prem Champs don’t even get prize money … 

[Roger Jacobs 554]

17 minutes ago, orion said:

Only when there reason for not liking something is because we never had it in our day. Rather that facts to back up there opinion. What ringers are you on about for the Play offs by the way ?

Must be referring to Tungate at Ipswich?  Of course, he replaced the injured (in great form) Riss - and Ipswich also took the opportunity to bring in Summers to replace Barker (suspended, and no sign of his return).

[BV66 34]

33 minutes ago, orion said:

Only when there reason for not liking something is because we never had it in our day. Rather that facts to back up there opinion. What ringers are you on about for the Play offs by the way ?

I should not have used the term "ringers" , I should have just said riders. As far as I know no rule breaking has taken place, just a matter of luck getting a good average on a rider as a replacement. I think the cut off date for signing riders before the Play-Offs was moved, I could be mistaken though.

For me being a Belle Vue fan, we have had a disastrous time in the Play-Offs, we must have the worse record of anybody, failing so many times in them. Perhaps this year if we get in them it will be different, but with our team manager's tactical record, I am not in any way confident.

[mikebv 10,299]

3 hours ago, orion said:

No matter what format know one knows before how its going to work out .But all the stats show the old system had more dead rubbers than the play off system making your point invalid .

It may have had more "dead rubbers" as you correctly say, but it also did have teams visiting for maybe their only visit of the season, which meant some interest from the fans...

With an out and out superstar too in some cases, which could bring some of the best crowds of the season.. 

Now we have play offs with potentially teams making their fourth visit of the season, with riders on show visiting your track who may have guested several times for other teams (as well as your own team)...

The pull of the play offs will hopefully always deliver good crowds but it is the matches leading up to them which sadly dont always hold much sway...

 

Edited September 5, 2022 by mikebv

[Humphrey Appleby 13,961]

7 hours ago, steve roberts said:

You can imagine the outcry if the team that finished top in the Football Premier League weren't crowned champions?

Football is now more the exception rather than the rule for not having playoffs to decide its champions, although it does have promotion playoffs and of course had relegation test matches in the early days!

Although I prefer that the team with the most points wins the championship, even the points system has been contrived in recent years so nothing is sacrosanct. If race offs (I refuse to call them playoffs in speedway) are considered desirable though, you could give some advantage to the higher placed teams by giving them some sort of points lead and/or home advantage. You could also have a double elimination system which gives the higher placed teams more advantage. 

[orion 7,615]

17 minutes ago, mikebv said:

It may have had more "dead rubbers" as you correctly say, but it also did have teams visiting for maybe their only visit of the season, which meant some interest from the fans...

With an out and out superstar too in some cases, which could bring some of the best crowds of the season.. 

Now we have play offs with potentially teams making their fourth visit of the season, with riders on show visiting your track who may have guested several times for other teams (as well as your own team)...

The pull of the play offs will hopefully always deliver good crowds but it is the matches leading up to them which sadly dont always hold much sway...

 

Yet again that's nothing to do with the play offs  but the lack of teams.. Not having the play offs  won't change that.. plus there are no superstars anymore no matter what format..there are no reasons why crowds would be any better overall without play offs 

[steve roberts 9,246]

4 hours ago, orion said:

They don't have to  in the Pl as there are other things to play for..top 6 going down millions of pounds for each  place you finish in.Speedway has none  of that . Rugby have plays offs  to decide champions and there is no outcry because they all know the rules before hand .

 

 

Champions are still champions however and that's what the record books show. Football at that level has become too money orientated with the richest getting richer and, dare I suggest, buying success whereas further down the leagues teams are struggling to fight off survival and bankruptcy. Not a healthy situation in anybody's language.

Edited September 5, 2022 by steve roberts

[steve roberts 9,246]

2 hours ago, Roger Jacobs said:

Football is absolutely no comparison - even so, the Premier League has positions for Champions League and Europa League, etc. to play for, as well as the race for relegation, and even prize money for final positions, so they have a lot to play for.

Speedway’s Prem Champs don’t even get prize money … 

I would agree that comparisons aren't a true reflection on the state of either sport but I was referring to the fact that football still "rewards" the team that finishes top as champions irrespective of prize money. but as I have stated in my earlier post those teams further down the listings are fighting for their very survival whilst the richer clubs continual to get richer.

As regards Speedway we were sold the story that live league speedway would pull in major sponsors which unfortunately, for whatever reason, never did. Which beggars the question who got the SKY money?

Edited September 5, 2022 by steve roberts

[steve roberts 9,246]

30 minutes ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

Football is now more the exception rather than the rule for not having playoffs to decide its champions, although it does have promotion playoffs and of course had relegation test matches in the early days!

Although I prefer that the team with the most points wins the championship, even the points system has been contrived in recent years so nothing is sacrosanct. If race offs (I refuse to call them playoffs in speedway) are considered desirable though, you could give some advantage to the higher placed teams by giving them some sort of points lead and/or home advantage. You could also have a double elimination system which gives the higher placed teams more advantage. 

...and you have to ask the question why has football avoided going down that route? Would football fans except that scenario?

Of course promotion playoffs have been the norm for many years now but I think I am right in saying that those who finish top in the various leagues (Championship, One & Two) are still crowned champions? Only those immediately below that are involved in playoffs to decide on who gets promoted?

[THE DEAN MACHINE 4,756]

6 hours ago, steve roberts said:

I'd recommend anyone to read "Cloughie's" autobiogarphy. Although written nearly 20 years ago his views on the modern game and TV in particular make fascinating reading and there is much that is still relevant today especially regarding "big" money/salaries, club owners and over the top commentary analysis amongst many other observations.

The business side of football is money laundering at worst and tax off setting at best and gets a play thing thrown in and to a very lesser extent so is speedway although speedway’s is so small it doesn’t create a ripple in the financial world or even in the British tax system, the tax man has stuck his oar in a few times over the years but nothing ever comes of it, I’m yet to see an ex promoter living on the streets after his club folded owing 1000s to every man and his cat 

Edited September 5, 2022 by THE DEAN MACHINE

[steve roberts 9,246]

3 hours ago, BV66 said:

The Play-Offs are nothing more than a Mini K O Cup competition, at one time it meant something finishing top of the seasons League, as you had been the most consistent and best team over a full season. Not like now when ringers can be brought in at the last moment, as riders become available from Poland, to strengthen up for the Play-Offs.

This year is even worse, as teams know who they are likely to meet, as 1st v 4th and 3rd v 2nd, so it might pay a team to throw a meeting to get a better chance in the semi finals. So no perk whatsoever for being top of the League.

Does Orion have a problem with the older generation, as if you disrespect them, and  take them off the crowd figures, speedway would be finished.

...and we at Oxford had some right "humdingers" in the cup competitions!