Peterborough Panthers 2023

[OldNutter 48]

I am not the least interested in blaming anyone, but I am totally confused after this latest development.  As far as I can see, Peterborough Speedway has currently  got nowhere to race next year or any other year in the future as things stand.  In my simple world that makes it exist only as an imaginary entity.  If  it cannot race and has no team, no track and no viable future.  It has loads of fans who would like to keep the memories alive and get back to watching racing at Peterborough as soon as possible.  As an imaginary entity surely it cannot actually exist in the real world.  I am not sure how an imaginary entity can have an owner.  It is worth bugger all if it is only like a puff of smoke.  I asked a long time ago what is needed for a speedway club to exist.  I still do not know.  Chapman has lots of mates in the top layers of the sport and so is in a position to make whatever is needed in the way of permits to exist and complete in the sport, so could be an excellent friend to whoever has the wherewithal to get Peterborough Speedway running again.  What that press release seems to be saying that he is the owner of this club that is worth the aforesaid nothingness but if there is anyone who can prove that they can  bring our club back to life HE is the one who can give them permission to run it.  In the meantime he wants to do nothing to actually move it forward but has given his permission for the consortium to behave as though they are the club owners.  Again in my simple world, that is A about F.  The consortium should be seen to be leading and Chapman should be feeding them any help and advice on how to sort things out and mates or not, the powers should be doing all they can to move to a point where the club again has something to own.  I think the company registration should be showing the Chapmans resigning as directors ASAP and have the Consortium put in instead.  Chapman has done that sort of switch quite a few times so he should be able to help it happen.  At least that would look closer to a reality and add to the authority of the Consortium when dealing with the Council and everyone else, including the BSP.   Or is it my world that is like a puff of smoke.

[Hackney 89]

1 hour ago, OldNutter said:

I am not the least interested in blaming anyone, but I am totally confused after this latest development.  As far as I can see, Peterborough Speedway has currently  got nowhere to race next year or any other year in the future as things stand.  In my simple world that makes it exist only as an imaginary entity.  If  it cannot race and has no team, no track and no viable future.  It has loads of fans who would like to keep the memories alive and get back to watching racing at Peterborough as soon as possible.  As an imaginary entity surely it cannot actually exist in the real world.  I am not sure how an imaginary entity can have an owner.  It is worth bugger all if it is only like a puff of smoke.  I asked a long time ago what is needed for a speedway club to exist.  I still do not know.  Chapman has lots of mates in the top layers of the sport and so is in a position to make whatever is needed in the way of permits to exist and complete in the sport, so could be an excellent friend to whoever has the wherewithal to get Peterborough Speedway running again.  What that press release seems to be saying that he is the owner of this club that is worth the aforesaid nothingness but if there is anyone who can prove that they can  bring our club back to life HE is the one who can give them permission to run it.  In the meantime he wants to do nothing to actually move it forward but has given his permission for the consortium to behave as though they are the club owners.  Again in my simple world, that is A about F.  The consortium should be seen to be leading and Chapman should be feeding them any help and advice on how to sort things out and mates or not, the powers should be doing all they can to move to a point where the club again has something to own.  I think the company registration should be showing the Chapmans resigning as directors ASAP and have the Consortium put in instead.  Chapman has done that sort of switch quite a few times so he should be able to help it happen.  At least that would look closer to a reality and add to the authority of the Consortium when dealing with the Council and everyone else, including the BSP.   Or is it my world that is like a puff of smoke.

Don't claim to know much on this subject but it appears to me that the club is worthless and Chapman is sitting back allowing the consortium to do all the hard work to attempt to re-establish it before attempting to sell it to them.

[Daniel Smith 5,663]

24 minutes ago, Hackney said:

Don't claim to know much on this subject but it appears to me that the club is worthless and Chapman is sitting back allowing the consortium to do all the hard work to attempt to re-establish it before attempting to sell it to them.

That's absolutely it. 

Why would you hand over ownership of something of no value to which you've spent 10s of £1000s on, only for the new owner to potentially build (exaggeration I know) a 10,000 seater stadium & have a sell-on value of £ms?? 

If the new consortium find acres of land & get building regulations approved, Peterborough Speedway's licence would then have market value & a rightful return for Chapman. 

[Crump99 4,476]

16 minutes ago, Hackney said:

Don't claim to know much on this subject but it appears to me that the club is worthless and Chapman is sitting back allowing the consortium to do all the hard work to attempt to re-establish it before attempting to sell it to them.

While the consortium and save Peterborough Speedway campaign exists then Chapman knows that it's not worthless, hence why he says when appropriate. AEPG are going to have to negotiate with the club and fork out at some point if they want some or all of their plan or plans approved. They would be quids in anyway so what they'll have to pay Peterborough Speedway then (spot the connection?)  will be small beer to them. Either Chapman knows something that we don't, which probably wouldn't be surprising, or he's willing to gamble that the square root of nothing is nothing anyway. That's all unsubstantiated guesswork of course but one can only use the information that's thrown out there.

[Crump99 4,476]

16 hours ago, Daniel Smith said:

That's absolutely it. 

Why would you hand over ownership of something of no value to which you've spent 10s of £1000s on, only for the new owner to potentially build (exaggeration I know) a 10,000 seater stadium & have a sell-on value of £ms?? 

If the new consortium find acres of land & get building regulations approved, Peterborough Speedway's licence would then have market value & a rightful return for Chapman. 

It shouldn't be beyond the wit of man to to draw up a contract handing the club over to the consortium as it is now with clauses about future potential eventualities.

The consortium would have stronger negotiating power and Chapman would have a better chance of that future pension dividend.

If there is no hidden agenda then that certainly is a strange agenda to be following as his first choice.

Edited December 19, 2023 by Crump99

[Big Al 708]

2 hours ago, Crump99 said:

It shouldn't be beyond the wit of man to to draw up a contract handing the club over to the consortium as it is now with clauses about future potential eventualities.

The consortium would have stronger negotiating power and Chapman would have a better chance of that future pension dividend.

If there is no hidden agenda then that certainly is a strange agenda to be following as first choice.

For the statement to have credibility, shouldn't it be backed up by the consortium members each becoming a director of Peterborough Speedway Ltd (or whatever the company is called) and perhaps also become shareholders, even if their shareholdings are initially only very small?

[Crump99 4,476]

7 hours ago, Big Al said:

For the statement to have credibility, shouldn't it be backed up by the consortium members each becoming a director of Peterborough Speedway Ltd (or whatever the company is called) and perhaps also become shareholders, even if their shareholdings are initially only very small?

As I said, more questions than answers. However, Bratters and co know what they are trying to achieve and I'm sure that the statement serves their purpose, even though it's far from perfect looking from the outside? It keeps Peterborough Speedway on the front page and gives the screw another turn.

[eric i 617]

17 hours ago, Hackney said:

Don't claim to know much on this subject but it appears to me that the club is worthless and Chapman is sitting back allowing the consortium to do all the hard work to attempt to re-establish it before attempting to sell it to them.

'would be very happy to open talks over the ownership at an appropriate time'

Chapman has been adamant that speedway is finished at showground but he is happy for the enthusiastic consortium to put the work in to try and save it. If they are successful, Chapman can get a load more money for the sale of the club. 

The complete lack of effort by Chapman to save the club himself and then says things like 'All we want is for the club to return to racing', is shameful.

[Crump99 4,476]

11 minutes ago, eric i said:

Chapman has been adamant that speedway is finished at showground

And that messaging basically continues and is still sold which is the disappointing thing, just read the latest BBC items. It's another white flag on the EoES. The main positive of that statement was that it replaced farewell to the EoES as the main news item. It's still a bad look but not half as bad as it was.

[Big Al 708]

8 hours ago, Crump99 said:

As I said, more questions than answers. However, Bratters and co know what they are trying to achieve and I'm sure that the statement serves their purpose, even though it's far from perfect looking from the outside? It keeps Peterborough Speedway on the front page and gives the screw another turn.

But who does that article make it appear to be the one turning the screw. A masterstroke by the King of smoke and mirrors, one that has blindsided the consortium?

[proud panther 1,505]

4 hours ago, eric i said:

'would be very happy to open talks over the ownership at an appropriate time'

Chapman has been adamant that speedway is finished at showground but he is happy for the enthusiastic consortium to put the work in to try and save it. If they are successful, Chapman can get a load more money for the sale of the club. 

The complete lack of effort by Chapman to save the club himself and then says things like 'All we want is for the club to return to racing', is shameful.

Agree 100%

[Crump99 4,476]

3 hours ago, Big Al said:

But who does that article make it appear to be the one turning the screw. A masterstroke by the King of smoke and mirrors, one that has blindsided the consortium?

Depends what way you look at it. If you look at the overall picture then it's helpful to the consortium with their objectives. If you've only got pound signs in front of your eyes and no hidden agenda then the statement clearly favours you although it can't be a surprise to the consortium that dealing with this owner is going to be anything but straightforward.

[Najjer 2,890]

What exactly does Chapman actually own - what precisely is Peterborough Speedway’s assets? I don’t mean rider value either as that is worthless. Possibly an air fence, some starting tapes and possible track equipment? 

The fact that under British Speedway laws somebody could hold a promotors license and therefore hold potential owners or people willing to run a Peterborough affiliated outfit to ransom absolutely stinks. The same scenario became apparent at Somerset, at Newport in the past and many other places too. 

[Big Al 708]

9 hours ago, Najjer said:

What exactly does Chapman actually own - what precisely is Peterborough Speedway’s assets? I don’t mean rider value either as that is worthless. Possibly an air fence, some starting tapes and possible track equipment? 

The fact that under British Speedway laws somebody could hold a promotors license and therefore hold potential owners or people willing to run a Peterborough affiliated outfit to ransom absolutely stinks. The same scenario became apparent at Somerset, at Newport in the past and many other places too. 

I think it comes under the heading of "intellectual property" or something similar and possibly includes the name "Peterborough Speedway" and the right to use it.

[Big Al 708]

9 hours ago, Crump99 said:

Depends what way you look at it. If you look at the overall picture then it's helpful to the consortium with their objectives. If you've only got pound signs in front of your eyes and no hidden agenda then the statement clearly favours you although it can't be a surprise to the consortium that dealing with this owner is going to be anything but straightforward.

I guess it also depends on how the Consortium members regard the statement!