Swart and Quiling

[Puma23 27]

Does anyone know riders with surnames Swart and Quiling? They rode propably in 1961 and 1962. I found results from Argentinian Championship 1961/1962. These surnames sound like british.

 

Edited January 31, 2023 by Puma23

[arnieg 3,662]

1 hour ago, Puma23 said:

Does anyone know riders with surnames Swart and Quiling? They rode propably in 1961 and 1962. I found results from Argentinian Championship 1961/1962. These surnames sound like british.

 

Quite a high proportion of Argentines are of Spanish/German/British/Italian descent so those could simply be Argentinian names.

For example nobody considers Bobby Schwartz to be German or Sam Ermolenko to be Russian/Ukrainian

[iris123 21,047]

41 minutes ago, arnieg said:

Quite a high proportion of Argentines are of Spanish/German/British/Italian descent so those could simply be Argentinian names.

For example nobody considers Bobby Schwartz to be German or Sam Ermolenko to be Russian/Ukrainian

Agree

 Just look at the MacAllister that played in the Football World Cup for Argentina

Another famous player known as 'the Englishman' 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_Babington

A family from Scotland. Plus there was a later Brown (unrelated) who played for Argentina in 1986 World Cup

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_family_(Argentina)

Anyway, i think Swart is more a Dutch name. And there was at least one Dutch rider, Pascal Swart i remember

Edited January 31, 2023 by iris123

[Puma23 27]

I do not agree with you

I know all argentinian riders who rode in seasons 1958-1965.

Quiling and Swart rode one maybe two meetings no more (championship had 8 rounds). They have never apeared before or later seasons. They rode only in season 1961/1962 and only 1 or 2 meetings.

That time 4 danish riders rode in Argentinian Championship oragnized by club from Buenos Aires. The same time Bahia Blanca (Club Villa Mitre) oraganized own championship too.

These danish rode in 1 or 2 rounds of Bahia Blanca championship.

I am not sure but I think Quiling can be Paul Wissing from Denmark.

[iris123 21,047]

Well still think Swart is not english.

Could be South African for instance, as there is a certain Dutch influence in names. And was also a former SA rider called Deon Swart. Or possibly Australian ? Even Sharp maybe ? 

[Humphrey Appleby 13,971]

On 2/1/2023 at 6:55 AM, iris123 said:

Anyway, i think Swart is more a Dutch name. And there was at least one Dutch rider, Pascal Swart i remember

Swart is an older Dutch spelling for black. Nowadays it would be Zwart, but the spelling of family names often didn't get updated during the various language reforms, especially amongst Afrikaans.

Swart is also an old English name (presumably with a connection to Anglo-Saxons and Frisians), so could conceivably be found anywhere where the British went.

It's probably more likely this rider would have been Dutch or South African though.

Edited February 4, 2023 by Humphrey Appleby

[iris123 21,047]

7 minutes ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

Swart is an older Dutch spelling for black. Nowadays it would be Zwart, but the spelling of family names often didn't get updated during the various language reforms, especially amongst Afrikaans.

Swart is also an old English name (presumably with a connection to Anglo-Saxons and Frisians), so could conceivably be found anywhere where the British went.

It's probably more likely this rider would have been Dutch or South African though.

Didn't realise there was also a UK connection

Funnily enough, i remember Pascal Swart wanting to get a ride in the NL through his Mother being British

[Bavarian 768]

On 2/1/2023 at 12:24 PM, Puma23 said:

I do not agree with you

I know all argentinian riders who rode in seasons 1958-1965.

Quiling and Swart rode one maybe two meetings no more (championship had 8 rounds). They have never apeared before or later seasons. They rode only in season 1961/1962 and only 1 or 2 meetings.

That time 4 danish riders rode in Argentinian Championship oragnized by club from Buenos Aires. The same time Bahia Blanca (Club Villa Mitre) oraganized own championship too.

These danish rode in 1 or 2 rounds of Bahia Blanca championship.

I am not sure but I think Quiling can be Paul Wissing from Denmark.

I tend to agree with You that it is likely that the rider named "Quiling" is in fact Paul Wissing. The Spanish pronounce it quite similarly.

Therefore is is also highly likely that "Swart" is in fact another one of the Danish tourist. Do You have the names of those four Danish riders? Does any one of them sound similar to "swart"? 

 

By the way, are You aware of an Argentina rider of the early 1950s by the name of "Neovanna" ? I have come across this name as one who rode in an international meeting in Pocking, Germany, in 1953. I have not seen his name in any other meetings, though. It is very unusual for the time that an Argentinean rider would have come over to ride in this meeting at Pocking.

But I do have a suspect! I am aware that there was an Austrian rider by the name of Josef "Sepp" Neubauer, who emigrated after the war to Argentina and I suspect that this might be him. "Neo" translates as "Neu" in German, so Neovanna might by a Spanish version of his original name? And as Pocking is a town right on the Bavarian/Austrian border, it might have been Neubauer on a visit back home in 1953. Do You (or anybody else) have an idea about this rider's true identity?   

[Puma23 27]

[Puma23 27]

And Kurt W. Petersen won Buenos Aires Championship. He won all 14 rounds.

[Bavarian 768]

So the four Danish riders were Poul Wissing, Kurt W. Petersen, Villy Mathiasen, and John Sylvest Andersen. Difficult to see which one could have gone through as "Swart" - Sylvest's the only name that begins with an "S" but that is not really a clue to solve this riddle. 

[Puma23 27]

Yes Bavarian. I thought about Andersen. I am sure in 99% it was Andersen. But there is so many mistakes in argentinian riders :/