The future of British Speedway after the 2023 season

[Aries 450]

9 hours ago, Baldyman said:

Maybe it should just be shut down before it has no choice,,, and if any promoter wants to carry on,, and a track is available,, they can run some individuals,,maybe get a sponsor and put up some decent prize money. 

It's a shame,,, as it finally looked like speedway was trying to move with the times with the streaming,,but probably all just a bit too late. 

 

Another defeatist! What’s wrong with you lot? This forum is a cesspit of complete misery!! You can wave the white flag and stop going if you like, but there’s plenty of good speedway I’m looking forward to attending in both leagues this year and I’m sure there’s thousands of others across the country that feel the same. It’s not a case of “burying head in the sand” as someone put it, far from it I acknowledge the difficulties some are facing and it’s concerning. But there was real enthusiasm before the season started and despite doubts over the longer term future of Peterborough and now Wolves, neither club have folded and it’s as you were as far as this season’s league set up is concerned so why do people think everyone should now just throw in the towel? It’s bizarre. 
 

If the worst does happen with those clubs then the relevant people will deal with that if and when that arises. If that means pushing another club or two in to the top flight, or merging the two in to one big league who knows, but life is short and none of us who post on here even know if we’ll be here this time next year! Live for today, smile, and worry about what happens next year and beyond when the time comes. You never know, it might not end up as bad as you think!

[Baldyman 6,243]

Oh no,, not another happy positive person,,, what's the matter with you lot.   Defeat, misery and being depressed is the way forward. 

[iainb 5,156]

1 hour ago, Aries said:

Another defeatist! What’s wrong with you lot? This forum is a cesspit of complete misery!! You can wave the white flag and stop going if you like, but there’s plenty of good speedway I’m looking forward to attending in both leagues this year and I’m sure there’s thousands of others across the country that feel the same. It’s not a case of “burying head in the sand” as someone put it, far from it I acknowledge the difficulties some are facing and it’s concerning. But there was real enthusiasm before the season started and despite doubts over the longer term future of Peterborough and now Wolves, neither club have folded and it’s as you were as far as this season’s league set up is concerned so why do people think everyone should now just throw in the towel? It’s bizarre. 
 

If the worst does happen with those clubs then the relevant people will deal with that if and when that arises. If that means pushing another club or two in to the top flight, or merging the two in to one big league who knows, but life is short and none of us who post on here even know if we’ll be here this time next year! Live for today, smile, and worry about what happens next year and beyond when the time comes. You never know, it might not end up as bad as you think!

While I agree that people should go along and continue to watch and enjoy their Speedway as I am and not just throw the towel in (reading some of the comments on the Peterborough thread is indeed quite bizarre), you must see that we can not continue as we are currently going and letting the "relevant" people, who have got us into this situation, get us out of it is equally bizarre.  I would say the current situation is more than concerning... it's alarming!

My enthusiasm is still there and I'll be travelling the country watching Speedway as I always have done for the last 45 odd years... you can only push clubs and merge leagues until a point where it become unsustainable... and we're not far away from that.

[Aries 450]

41 minutes ago, iainb said:

While I agree that people should go along and continue to watch and enjoy their Speedway as I am and not just throw the towel in (reading some of the comments on the Peterborough thread is indeed quite bizarre), you must see that we can not continue as we are currently going and letting the "relevant" people, who have got us into this situation, get us out of it is equally bizarre.  I would say the current situation is more than concerning... it's alarming!

My enthusiasm is still there and I'll be travelling the country watching Speedway as I always have done for the last 45 odd years... you can only push clubs and merge leagues until a point where it become unsustainable... and we're not far away from that.

Well it isn’t is it, things have changed on that front unless you’ve missed it? Phil Morris isn’t god, and of course he can’t stop clubs from closing. Wasn’t the same things said last year regarding Peterborough? It seems that every year for the last few it’s going to be the “last one”. Let’s just wait and see IF it is to be the case this time, and also if Tomalin is good for his word on finding another site IF the worst happens. Wolves has literally come out of the blue, but again it isn’t cut and dried is it? Let’s just wait and see. Depends what kind of person you are, you can be a glass half empty or a glass half full kind of person. I personally prefer to wait until things actually happen before running around like my hair is on fire. 
 

“You can only push clubs and merge leagues until a point where it become unsustainable..and we’re not far away from that”

I’ll bet you’re wrong here. In ten years time there will still be a British League Speedway of some sort. No idea what it’ll look like, but there will be a British League. 

[iainb 5,156]

24 minutes ago, Aries said:

Well it isn’t is it, things have changed on that front unless you’ve missed it? Phil Morris isn’t god, and of course he can’t stop clubs from closing. Wasn’t the same things said last year regarding Peterborough? It seems that every year for the last few it’s going to be the “last one”. Let’s just wait and see IF it is to be the case this time, and also if Tomalin is good for his word on finding another site IF the worst happens. Wolves has literally come out of the blue, but again it isn’t cut and dried is it? Let’s just wait and see. Depends what kind of person you are, you can be a glass half empty or a glass half full kind of person. I personally prefer to wait until things actually happen before running around like my hair is on fire. 
 

“You can only push clubs and merge leagues until a point where it become unsustainable..and we’re not far away from that”

I’ll bet you’re wrong here. In ten years time there will still be a British League Speedway of some sort. No idea what it’ll look like, but there will be a British League. 

Phil Morris is not god and let's not forget he's only overseeing the top flight... not the Championship or NDL. You say that every year people say it's going to be the "last one", I'm not sure who your team is but for lots of clubs it has been and speaking as someone who started watching my Speedway at Leicester and then Long Eaton & Coventry I have seen "my" team close 3 times! Clubs have always come and gone but in recent years the speed and number in which clubs have gone is far greater than those returning. As for Peterborough & MT's search for land, time will tell on that one but saying you're doing something and actually doing it are two very different things... I remember the i's just needing to be dotted and the t's needing to be crossed for Long Eaton to be moving into their new stadium, MT may very well have the best intentions but the proof of the pudding will be in the eating. I'm neither a glass half full or empty person... I'm a pragmatic realist

I'm sure Speedway will continue in some way, shape or form in this country in the years to come, but unless some kind of drastic action is taken I can very much see it being run in the same way that Grasstrack is or American/Australian Speedway is run on an amateur basis, especially if we continue with the Business as Usual approach.

Anyway, I shall be running up to Leicester like my hair is on fire tonight... which is surely the model that all other clubs should be aspiring to emulate.

[Falcon1983 557]

Just my idea if they try to make this all one league, so I have looked at a list of riders who potentially could ride in the UK, now this would be championship standard racing, the issue faced or shall I say one of them is that some clubs can’t pay more than championship pay, also you would have to slightly weaken the product to get the number of riders to potentially fill 14 teams, so I calculated the average of all riders and times it by 7 to get a team building total of 42.00 this would mean GP riders coming in on 12.00 avg, other top non-gp starts on 10.00 and then decent prospects on a 7.00 and new time foreigners (U24’s) on 5.00 avg.

 

The next issue was that some fans want to see big names, some fans don’t so some clubs can afford a bigger name others can’t, so it will just add to the way team building is done, also next up on the agenda is that people don’t want to see lower end wobblers vs GP riders so I would tweak the format slightly.

 

So the way I would do it is split the “one league” into a North/South divide, I have included Workington to make up the numbers but if rumours that Birmingham may have issues next season then it could easily be 6 side divisional leagues

British League North – Glasgow, Berwick, Redcar, Scunthorpe, Belle Vue, Sheffield & Workington.

British League South – Ipswich, Poole, Kings Lynn, Plymouth, Oxford, Leicester & Birmingham.

For the league – team rides home and away once against each other, 2 points for a win with a bonus point available for an aggregate win, no tactical subs allowed in the league, at the end of the season you have a British League North and a British League South champion and these two sides meeting in an end of season British League Championship play-off to crown the overall British Champion

The league racing would give each side 5 home meetings and an additional meeting if they win their regional division and quality for the British championship play-off.

The league programme format would see team building done differently

Riders at no.1 and no.4 would be classed as Heat Leaders
Riders at no.2 and no.3 would be classed as Second Strings
Rider at no.5 would be classed as an Senior Reserve rider
Riders at no.6 and no.7 would be classed as reserves

It would be a programmed 13 heat format with heat 14 being a nominated heat, it would feature two races where riders at no.1 and no.4 combine against their opposition numbers, it would also contain two reserves races where the no.6 and no.7 riders face each other

Each reserve will have 3 programmed rides and will have two races together plus one race with their Senior Reserve each, the senior reserve will only partner the second strings in their other two programmed rides,  the “heat leaders” riding at No.1 & No.4 will race together twice and then one other ride each with both second strings.

During a season the reserves can only progress to racing as a Senior Reserve no higher, a Senior Reserve can only progress to Second String standard and a Second String rider can only progress to Heat Leader status.

Riders riding no.1 – no.5 will get 4 heats each, riders at no.6 or no.7 will get 3 programmed rides.

When it comes to Guests etc. you can only get a Guest rider from the other region.

Clubs run on the night that best suits them, and would build a team that would be available mostly on that race night, if the opposition lose a rider to Poland etc. that is just the way it is unfortunately.

British League Cup

All 14 teams will ride in the British League Cup, where they will ride 6 meetings (3 home, 3 away) against opposition from the rival regional division, so taking Glasgow as an example

Ipswich, Kings Lynn & Oxford at Home
Poole, Plymouth & Leicester Away from home
They are not drawn against Birmingham.

Points are scored 2 points for a win with an away point awarded if losing by less than 6

Tactical Substitutions are allowed twice during these meetings when you are losing by 6 points or more, a HL can only replace a SS on a tactical sub, a SS can only replace a SNR reserve rider on a tactical sub

The league cup standings will feature all 14 sides in a league table with the top 8 sides qualifying for two-legged quarter finals, so 1^st vs 8^th, 2^nd vs 7^th, 3^rd vs 6^th, 4^th vs 5^th etc.

This idea is similar to what is happening in Champions League football where all 32 clubs are going to be in one big league table but don’t play every side, so some of it comes down to luck of the draw of which club you draw home or away,

This competition generates a further 3 home meetings in total and if you progress to the final an additional 3 meetings at home.

 

British Super 12 Series

Replace the British Championship with a Super 12 series, raced at 12 venues featuring 12 riders,  12 qualifying heats, top 4 to the final

£3k to the winner, £2k to second, £1k to third

Free Tyres, Fuel etc for all riders, all televised on Eurosport deal so that these riders can maximum sponsorship

Overall winner takes home additional £30k, £20k to second, £10k to third

** This will also include the 'British U24 Rising Star Series" same thing but 8 riders, 8 qualifying heats and a final **

so 22 heats of racing


I think British Speedway needs to focus just on that "British" Speedway and having something there for domestic riders to actually want to race for, the top brits will go to Poland and compete internationally, this is for the riders that won't get there or do get there but are on their way back down.

Super 12 Series Rider Line Up

and just to give you an idea of what teams could look like for the league racing, not sure if any are retired yet or may make a comeback even.

 

[iainb 5,156]

5 minutes ago, Falcon1983 said:

Just my idea if they try to make this all one league, so I have looked at a list of riders who potentially could ride in the UK, now this would be championship standard racing, the issue faced or shall I say one of them is that some clubs can’t pay more than championship pay, also you would have to slightly weaken the product to get the number of riders to potentially fill 14 teams, so I calculated the average of all riders and times it by 7 to get a team building total of 42.00 this would mean GP riders coming in on 12.00 avg, other top non-gp starts on 10.00 and then decent prospects on a 7.00 and new time foreigners (U24’s) on 5.00 avg.

 

The next issue was that some fans want to see big names, some fans don’t so some clubs can afford a bigger name others can’t, so it will just add to the way team building is done, also next up on the agenda is that people don’t want to see lower end wobblers vs GP riders so I would tweak the format slightly.

 

So the way I would do it is split the “one league” into a North/South divide, I have included Workington to make up the numbers but if rumours that Birmingham may have issues next season then it could easily be 6 side divisional leagues

British League North – Glasgow, Berwick, Redcar, Scunthorpe, Belle Vue, Sheffield & Workington.

British League South – Ipswich, Poole, Kings Lynn, Plymouth, Oxford, Leicester & Birmingham.

For the league – team rides home and away once against each other, 2 points for a win with a bonus point available for an aggregate win, no tactical subs allowed in the league, at the end of the season you have a British League North and a British League South champion and these two sides meeting in an end of season British League Championship play-off to crown the overall British Champion

The league racing would give each side 5 home meetings and an additional meeting if they win their regional division and quality for the British championship play-off.

The league programme format would see team building done differently

Riders at no.1 and no.4 would be classed as Heat Leaders
Riders at no.2 and no.3 would be classed as Second Strings
Rider at no.5 would be classed as an Senior Reserve rider
Riders at no.6 and no.7 would be classed as reserves

It would be a programmed 13 heat format with heat 14 being a nominated heat, it would feature two races where riders at no.1 and no.4 combine against their opposition numbers, it would also contain two reserves races where the no.6 and no.7 riders face each other

Each reserve will have 3 programmed rides and will have two races together plus one race with their Senior Reserve each, the senior reserve will only partner the second strings in their other two programmed rides,  the “heat leaders” riding at No.1 & No.4 will race together twice and then one other ride each with both second strings.

During a season the reserves can only progress to racing as a Senior Reserve no higher, a Senior Reserve can only progress to Second String standard and a Second String rider can only progress to Heat Leader status.

Riders riding no.1 – no.5 will get 4 heats each, riders at no.6 or no.7 will get 3 programmed rides.

When it comes to Guests etc. you can only get a Guest rider from the other region.

Clubs run on the night that best suits them, and would build a team that would be available mostly on that race night, if the opposition lose a rider to Poland etc. that is just the way it is unfortunately.

British League Cup

All 14 teams will ride in the British League Cup, where they will ride 6 meetings (3 home, 3 away) against opposition from the rival regional division, so taking Glasgow as an example

Ipswich, Kings Lynn & Oxford at Home
Poole, Plymouth & Leicester Away from home
They are not drawn against Birmingham.

Points are scored 2 points for a win with an away point awarded if losing by less than 6

Tactical Substitutions are allowed twice during these meetings when you are losing by 6 points or more, a HL can only replace a SS on a tactical sub, a SS can only replace a SNR reserve rider on a tactical sub

The league cup standings will feature all 14 sides in a league table with the top 8 sides qualifying for two-legged quarter finals, so 1^st vs 8^th, 2^nd vs 7^th, 3^rd vs 6^th, 4^th vs 5^th etc.

This idea is similar to what is happening in Champions League football where all 32 clubs are going to be in one big league table but don’t play every side, so some of it comes down to luck of the draw of which club you draw home or away,

This competition generates a further 3 home meetings in total and if you progress to the final an additional 3 meetings at home.

 

British Super 12 Series

Replace the British Championship with a Super 12 series, raced at 12 venues featuring 12 riders,  12 qualifying heats, top 4 to the final

£3k to the winner, £2k to second, £1k to third

Free Tyres, Fuel etc for all riders, all televised on Eurosport deal so that these riders can maximum sponsorship

Overall winner takes home additional £30k, £20k to second, £10k to third

** This will also include the 'British U24 Rising Star Series" same thing but 8 riders, 8 qualifying heats and a final **

so 22 heats of racing


I think British Speedway needs to focus just on that "British" Speedway and having something there for domestic riders to actually want to race for, the top brits will go to Poland and compete internationally, this is for the riders that won't get there or do get there but are on their way back down.

Super 12 Series Rider Line Up

and just to give you an idea of what teams could look like for the league racing, not sure if any are retired yet or may make a comeback even.

 

That's all very well and good and it's a brilliant effort in putting all of that together, but... where's the plan to get the crowds back though, it's just a rehash of the current crap that's being served up. Where's the engagement with a new audience, where's the solution to meetings being called off on weather forecasts on a sunny night, where's the solution to the crap race tracks that are served up week in week out up and down the country, where's the solution to being expected to stand in a muddy puddle queuing up to get in, where's the solution to wading ankle deep in p1ss to go to the toilet, the solution to 15 mins racing in 1 hour and 45 mins, the solution to tractor racing, the solution to going home covered in dust and all of the other farcical events we've all been subject to down the years, the events that fewer and fewer of us are returning to.

4 riders racing each other over 4 laps is still quite an experience it's all of the other crap surrounding it that eventually puts people off.

I don't think all of this tinkering around the edges with formats etc. is going to cut it... I'll start you off with something radical... 250cc bikes!

[Falcon1983 557]

17 minutes ago, iainb said:

That's all very well and good and it's a brilliant effort in putting all of that together, but... where's the plan to get the crowds back though Regionalising the main league hopefully seeing an increase on away support, it's just a rehash of the current crap that's being served up. Where's the engagement with a new audience by implementing the Super 12 series, easier to get someone to go to a "Championship" meeting as a one-off than to get someone to go regularly to league meetings, obviously marketing this championship via social media and local media, where's the solution to meetings being called off on weather forecasts on a sunny night some form of set of track covers being introduced and shared regionally if two clubs have meetings on a specific week they have use of covers 3 days prior to the meeting etc., where's the solution to the crap race tracks that are served up week in week out up and down the country Phil Morris?, where's the solution to being expected to stand in a muddy puddle queuing up to get in not experienced much of that myself, where's the solution to wading ankle deep in p1ss to go to the toilet, certainly needs improvement but thats down to the facility not alwauys the club the solution to 15 mins racing in 1 hour and 45 mins, the solution to tractor racing, the solution to going home covered in dust and all of the other farcical events we've all been subject to down the years, the events that fewer and fewer of us are returning to.

4 riders racing each other over 4 laps is still quite an experience it's all of the other crap surrounding it that eventually puts people off. I agree with facilities being quite off putting at most places

I don't think all of this tinkering around the edges with formats etc. is going to cut it... I'll start you off with something radical... 250cc bikes! 250cc bikes sounds interesting but would that not mean more costs as investment for new machinery?

 

[mikebv 10,355]

17 hours ago, mikebv said:

Brady Kurtz rides tomorrow in Poland and not at Leicester for Belle Vue..

The UK give up Thursday as a protected race night....

The UK is already very much a 2nd rate nation when it comes to Speedway when up against Poland..

Poland even dictates when FIM meetings takes place such is their power...

And, to be fair, with the money they pay out, they should dictate what happens and when, as without that money the riders wouldn't have the same income levels...

Many tracks will spend several hundred thousands of pounds on riders from Marxh to September..

Yet for all that huge outlay, many will not turn a profit and have to use the deep pockets of owners to remain in place.. 

The sport could I am sure utilise such a huge outlay of money much wiser by running events with big prize money less times a year? 

Maybe like Stock Cars do?

At the old Kirky Lane track, more fans watched the Stox over a season than watched the Aces, yet did it running much lesser meetings...

If you are going to willingly spend a few hundred grand, then surely at least you use it to promote big events, which resonate with the local public, media, and prick their interest..

The PCMM this year felt like 'an event', given the presentation and the crowd level..

The run of the mill domestic offerings appear much less of 'an event' in comparison to this kind of meeting, hence much less levels in attendance...

Less could truly be more for Speedway's growth...

Quality not Quantity...

[Falcon1983 557]

16 minutes ago, mikebv said:

Many tracks will spend several hundred thousands of pounds on riders from Marxh to September..

Yet for all that huge outlay, many will not turn a profit and have to use the deep pockets of owners to remain in place.. 

The sport could I am sure utilise such a huge outlay of money much wiser by running events with big prize money less times a year? 

Maybe like Stock Cars do?

At the old Kirky Lane track, more fans watched the Stox over a season than watched the Aces, yet did it running much lesser meetings...

If you are going to willingly spend a few hundred grand, then surely at least you use it to promote big events, which resonate with the local public, media, and prick their interest..

The PCMM this year felt like 'an event', given the presentation and the crowd level..

The run of the mill domestic offerings appear much less of 'an event' in comparison to this kind of meeting, hence much less levels in attendance...

Less could truly be more for Speedway's growth...

Quality not Quantity...

I certainly think a less is more is better and you could then have people pay £20 for it

It is easier to get someone to come and try and event once than to get them to come to several meetings which is why I think a british championship series would be better as you can promote these differently to league meetings, go for extreme sport, aim for the adrenaline junky etc. crashes, fights etc.  and you're likely to get someone there once if they think its a one off in their home town

[IronScorpion 1,408]

A meeting at Lublin in Poland TOMORROW postponed because they can not prepare the track!!!!!

[Pinny 2,537]

After this season, it really is time to make it one big league now. Forget North and South divides, throw all the sides into one league and if it means 5/6 rider teams, then so be it.

Bring back a premier trophy style comp to start the season. Split teams into 3/4 groups. Race all those fixtures before the league starts. Have no gaps during the season and a fixture every week.

Fans are the backbone of the sport and its high time the powers that be listen to them. Fans want a team of riders who they can associate with their club every week of the season. Not once every three weeks and seeing their riders riding for other teams. Guests every single week. Its just a farce how its currently ran. Calling meetings off a day or two in advance because of weather forecasts. Baffling.

I stopped attending league speedway when Newport shut in 2011 and haven't been to one league meeting since. Don't get me wrong, the set ups were a shambles back then but they appear to be a whole lot worse now than what they were then.

Even now when watching clips on twitter etc, you see some great on track racing but the whole presentation in the back ground just looks and sounds a sham. Its time the sport moved with the times. Every other sport has.

I certainly wouldn't part with around 50 quid to watch league speedway every week anymore if I lived in the UK. Admission, a few pints and some food plus petrol and parking etc... it would be well worth the cost if it was a modern day / night out.

Instead of spending every off season tinkering with silly rules, renaming leagues and competitions and sticking another nail in the coffin, it needs a younger bunch of people who are in touch with the real world who are willing to rip the whole rule book up and start afresh with a view to bringing in bigger, younger crowds.

One thing I will say is despite most clubs websites being rubbish these days, the social media is really good. Websites don't matter as much anymore as barely anyone views them, social media is where its at and most clubs do a very good job on that front.

[KrisB 54]

On 4/20/2023 at 8:00 AM, Aries said:

Another defeatist! What’s wrong with you lot? This forum is a cesspit of complete misery!! You can wave the white flag and stop going if you like, but there’s plenty of good speedway I’m looking forward to attending in both leagues this year and I’m sure there’s thousands of others across the country that feel the same. It’s not a case of “burying head in the sand” as someone put it, far from it I acknowledge the difficulties some are facing and it’s concerning. But there was real enthusiasm before the season started and despite doubts over the longer term future of Peterborough and now Wolves, neither club have folded and it’s as you were as far as this season’s league set up is concerned so why do people think everyone should now just throw in the towel? It’s bizarre. 
 

If the worst does happen with those clubs then the relevant people will deal with that if and when that arises. If that means pushing another club or two in to the top flight, or merging the two in to one big league who knows, but life is short and none of us who post on here even know if we’ll be here this time next year! Live for today, smile, and worry about what happens next year and beyond when the time comes. You never know, it might not end up as bad as you think!

How will riders afford the loss of half their (doubling up) income?

[Falcon1983 557]

1 hour ago, KrisB said:

How will riders afford the loss of half their (doubling up) income?

My question would be "how many riders would it effect"?

Surely not as many as we think, if you're scoring 3 or 4 points across both leagues with the operating costs, surely you are not making money to start with, so scoring 3 or 4 points in one league and halving your operational costs is probably a benefit

 

[Fortythirtyeight 844]

5 minutes ago, Falcon1983 said:

My question would be "how many riders would it effect"?

Surely not as many as we think, if you're scoring 3 or 4 points across both leagues with the operating costs, surely you are not making money to start with, so scoring 3 or 4 points in one league and halving your operational costs is probably a benefit

 

You haven’t factored in the dreaded guarantee. Most 3-4 pointers will be on one so you ARE halving their income.