Danish Grand Prix - Vojens - 16th Sep

[chunky 6,112]

2 hours ago, enotian said:

'm sure the Torun GP promoters and the broadcasters would all prefer a last round decider for the title. that's how entertainment works now, nobody is bothered about a dead rubber.

That's what I keep saying on here. Nobody watches sport for the "sporting aspect"; ie entertainment. The only thing they're interested in is sudden-death finals and results.

Is there really something wrong with me watching speedway because I enjoy the racing?

[DazS 434]

Well they haven't brought a law out yet. so it must be allowed but health and safety may be looking into it.

[OveFundinFan 4,145]

19 hours ago, chunky said:

That's what I keep saying on here. Nobody watches sport for the "sporting aspect"; ie entertainment. The only thing they're interested in is sudden-death finals and results.

Is there really something wrong with me watching speedway because I enjoy the racing?

A bold statement Chunky. I would like to think your wrong but I have no proof.

[chunky 6,112]

1 hour ago, OveFundinFan said:

A bold statement Chunky. I would like to think your wrong but I have no proof.

Why do you think they have introduced playoffs into most sports? It's to "keep the interest", and to give "everybody a chance". It never used to be that way, and I was perfectly okay with that.

As a professional sportsman myself, I was quite happy to see the best player/team win, even if it did mean the title was actually wrapped up before the end. You can see by the comments on here, how people dreaded the thought of Zmarzlik winning the title before the last GP. Why? He's the best, and he deserves it. What is so wrong with that? Can't people just enjoy the racing?

[RobbieB 26]

I agree Chunky, the sudden death finals alongside the GP semis mean that a rider can become World Champion without winning a race, by making the GP finals consistently throughout the season even if they have scored 6 or 8 points during the 20 heats racing.

Obviously, no-one knows how many points Bartosz may have scored in Vojens. But if rider points were solely accumulated over 20 heats, then current system via the semis and final, the GP point scores are significantly different. Using this method, the GP scores going into Torun are Lindgren 86; Lambert 85; Zmarzlik 84; Bewley 84; Holder 81; Vaculik 77; Fricke 71; Doyle 70; Madsen 68; Dudek 60; Woffinden 59; Michelsen 58; Janowski 49; Nilsson 38 and Thomsen 36.

As, you can see from the GP scores several riders would be in with a chance of becoming World Champion - rather than Zmarzlik and Lindgren under the current GP scoring system. More importantly the best rider over the GP series (with race wins) would become World Champion.

[norbold 7,118]

On 9/23/2023 at 3:35 PM, chunky said:

That's what I keep saying on here. Nobody watches sport for the "sporting aspect"; ie entertainment. The only thing they're interested in is sudden-death finals and results.

Is there really something wrong with me watching speedway because I enjoy the racing?

Another things that has occurred to me is that back in the "old days", we used to go along and watch "meaningless" matches, London v. the Rest, New Cross v. the Kiwis, etc. I even remember seeing Southampton v. Provincial League Select at New Cross when New Cross had an away fixture on race night. There were also a number of individual trophy meetings. And, of course, there were the second half scratch races. And yet we enjoyed them all just as much as the league and cup matches.

[chunky 6,112]

2 hours ago, norbold said:

Another things that has occurred to me is that back in the "old days", we used to go along and watch "meaningless" matches, London v. the Rest, New Cross v. the Kiwis, etc. I even remember seeing Southampton v. Provincial League Select at New Cross when New Cross had an away fixture on race night. There were also a number of individual trophy meetings. And, of course, there were the second half scratch races. And yet we enjoyed them all just as much as the league and cup matches.

Great point! I remember all the "Open" fixtures on the calendar, which often used to end up as challenges. One of my main memories from 1969 was an end-of-season challenge at Plough Lane when the Dons took on a "London" team. I was there. I had no intention of missing it. It was speedway, so I went. And I enjoyed it 

You say about the individual trophy meetings. It was that variety that maintained our interest. A couple of league matches, then an individual meeting. Couple more league matches, then a KOC clash. Another league match, followed by a 4-Team Tournament. Great stuff!

[chunky 6,112]

On 9/25/2023 at 10:39 AM, RobbieB said:

I agree Chunky, the sudden death finals alongside the GP semis mean that a rider can become World Champion without winning a race, by making the GP finals consistently throughout the season even if they have scored 6 or 8 points during the 20 heats racing.

Obviously, no-one knows how many points Bartosz may have scored in Vojens. But if rider points were solely accumulated over 20 heats, then current system via the semis and final, the GP point scores are significantly different. Using this method, the GP scores going into Torun are Lindgren 86; Lambert 85; Zmarzlik 84; Bewley 84; Holder 81; Vaculik 77; Fricke 71; Doyle 70; Madsen 68; Dudek 60; Woffinden 59; Michelsen 58; Janowski 49; Nilsson 38 and Thomsen 36.

As, you can see from the GP scores several riders would be in with a chance of becoming World Champion - rather than Zmarzlik and Lindgren under the current GP scoring system. More importantly the best rider over the GP series (with race wins) would become World Champion.

Thing to remember is that under the old World Final system, it was possible for a rider to become World Champion without winning a race also! Okay, it never happened, but it was possible...

[AFCB Wildcat 1,362]

On 9/25/2023 at 3:39 PM, RobbieB said:

I agree Chunky, the sudden death finals alongside the GP semis mean that a rider can become World Champion without winning a race, by making the GP finals consistently throughout the season even if they have scored 6 or 8 points during the 20 heats racing.

Obviously, no-one knows how many points Bartosz may have scored in Vojens. But if rider points were solely accumulated over 20 heats, then current system via the semis and final, the GP point scores are significantly different. Using this method, the GP scores going into Torun are Lindgren 86; Lambert 85; Zmarzlik 84; Bewley 84; Holder 81; Vaculik 77; Fricke 71; Doyle 70; Madsen 68; Dudek 60; Woffinden 59; Michelsen 58; Janowski 49; Nilsson 38 and Thomsen 36.

As, you can see from the GP scores several riders would be in with a chance of becoming World Champion - rather than Zmarzlik and Lindgren under the current GP scoring system. More importantly the best rider over the GP series (with race wins) would become World Champion.

I've been reluctant to comment on this because it's been done to death, but if your calculations based on points scored over 20 heats are correct, Lambert would be a major contender for World Champion going in to the last round.

Do you honestly think that Robert is the best  rider in the series this year when he's been nowhere near in the finals?

Bartosz knows how to pull it out of the bag when the chips are down. That to me is the mark of a champion.

[DazS 434]

33 minutes ago, AFCB Wildcat said:

I've been reluctant to comment on this because it's been done to death, but if your calculations based on points scored over 20 heats are correct, Lambert would be a major contender for World Champion going in to the last round.

Do you honestly think that Robert is the best  rider in the series this year when he's been nowhere near in the finals?

Bartosz knows how to pull it out of the bag when the chips are down. That to me is the mark of a champion.

well there we have it 2023 world champion decided by you. who will win next year,?

[AFCB Wildcat 1,362]

8 minutes ago, DazS said:

well there we have it 2023 world champion decided by you. who will win next year,?

Good grief! 

What is that even supposed to mean?? 

[DazS 434]

42 minutes ago, AFCB Wildcat said:

Good grief! 

What is that even supposed to mean?? 

do you read what you write.?

[AFCB Wildcat 1,362]

45 minutes ago, DazS said:

do you read what you write.?

Are you for real?

My initial point was that accumulating points in qualifying heats when you may have the favoured gates at the right time or be racing against reserves because of exclusions etc. doesn't make you the best rider in the world.

The best riders come to the fore at the business end of the meeting in my opinion.

The forum is about opinions though, so feel free to have a different one to mine by all means, and express it in an adult manner, but your responses have added nothing to debate and are just confrontational and pathetically childish.

 

 

[DazS 434]

5 minutes ago, AFCB Wildcat said:

The best riders come to the fore at the business end of the meeting in my opinion.

 

just remind me how they get to the business end of the meeting.!!

[AFCB Wildcat 1,362]

1 hour ago, DazS said:

just remind me how they get to the business end of the meeting.!!

If you're trying to sound clever, you're failing miserably. Quite the contrary in fact.

I didn't predict the 2023 champion, or any other year for that matter. 

I was saying that Bartosz and other riders worthy of becoming world champion can win the races that matter.  Feel free to offer an alternative view point if you can, although I accept that sensible debate might be a bit challenging for you .