truthsayer 234 Posted August 29, 2023 14 minutes ago, Skidder1 said: Yeah but individual meetings are notoriously poorly attended especially if its on an off-racenight. And I can't see 12 different tracks attracting fans from 11 other clubs on a Monday night. I also don't see a big travelling support, to be honest, as most speedway fans fall asleep at 9pm but a bold promotor might bring in some big names and local favourites in a bid to create some PR and put some bums on seats. But, and I can't stress this enough, the idea is a format for a TV audience first and a trackside one second. A series which can generate some interest and attention beyond the anoraks. Maybe it is a loss leader, maybe not, but trying to make a prestigious domestic series is one way for speedway to try and regain some credibility. Maybe this is not the format, maybe you disagree with me, but league race is dull for the mainstream and speedway has to develop something that has broader appeal and which is TV friendly. Personally I don't care a jot about 'teams' but my concept dabbles with it because it is so engrained in the sport. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DazS 430 Posted August 29, 2023 teams worked in its a knockout, 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iainb 5,017 Posted August 29, 2023 15 minutes ago, DazS said: teams worked in its a knockout, We could have that nice Stuart Hall presenting it, he brought real fun to proceedings... what's he up to these days? 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tim G 512 Posted August 29, 2023 13 minutes ago, truthsayer said: I also don't see a big travelling support, to be honest, as most speedway fans fall asleep at 9pm but a bold promotor might bring in some big names and local favourites in a bid to create some PR and put some bums on seats. But, and I can't stress this enough, the idea is a format for a TV audience first and a trackside one second. A series which can generate some interest and attention beyond the anoraks. Maybe it is a loss leader, maybe not, but trying to make a prestigious domestic series is one way for speedway to try and regain some credibility. Maybe this is not the format, maybe you disagree with me, but league race is dull for the mainstream and speedway has to develop something that has broader appeal and which is TV friendly. Personally I don't care a jot about 'teams' but my concept dabbles with it because it is so engrained in the sport. So what you are saying is a promoter should run an individual event that nobody would care about in the log run and lose money whilst doing it. You will have them queuing up to showcase one of these events. Why would a tv audience be more interested in this than they are league racing? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikebv 10,277 Posted August 29, 2023 23 minutes ago, DazS said: teams worked in its a knockout, Its a knockout had credibility and kudos in winning... If UK Speedway had ran it, it would be... "Tonight representing France is"... "Italy".... 2 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ben91 1,743 Posted August 29, 2023 Simple answer: no. Speedway people always seem to treat TV coverage as free advertising. The truth is you’re only tuning in to Speedway if you’re a Speedway fan. For this also read advertising Speedway in the Speedway Star. Preaching to the converted. Over the last decade the sport has gone from being on the biggest sports network to the second on a (rumoured) worse deal to now an even smaller network on a (again rumoured) even worse deal. And before anyone says it, Eurosport is behind Sky and BT (now TNT) in the pecking order in the UK. The sport needs to work on becoming a better product that TV stations want to cover rather than hoping someone comes along with a sack of gold to buy a load of turd with. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
truthsayer 234 Posted August 29, 2023 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Tim G said: So what you are saying is a promoter should run an individual event that nobody would care about in the log run and lose money whilst doing it. You will have them queuing up to showcase one of these events. Why would a tv audience be more interested in this than they are league racing? We're trying to build a product which appeals to broadcasters, which hopefully attracts sponsors who see value in the coverage. That's a revenue stream. If the product is good, and the promoter good, there's no reason why they shouldn't be able to draw a big crowd - especially if they bring in a big name GP rider to the event. Why would a TV audience be more interested? Where do we start... The sport is broken. It does not have the 42 riders it needs to put on three matches on a Monday night without reverting to borrowing players from other teams. This is literally under-10s football stuff. League racing is boring. It is not credible. There's no prize at the end of the night. It just drags on and on. Made for TV means a meaningful conclusion at the end of the final race. There's no filler riders, but an equally matched competition. It's a chance to restart the sport and engage with a new audience who don't have the time to try to work out what the heck is going on. Your sport is dead. It needs to do something. I still maintain its saviour will be developing a product for competitors rather than spectators, but one thing I am sure of is that stubbornly hanging on to league racing as the only game in town will not be the answer. The audience gets older, the competitor numbers get less and the venues go. New thinking is needed and the whole point of this thread was to open the debate about new formats for the sport - but it seems no-one's too fussed because 'we don't like that'. Edited August 29, 2023 by truthsayer typo 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
orion 7,615 Posted August 29, 2023 (edited) 54 minutes ago, truthsayer said: Maybe I am not making myself clear. What I'm talking about is a product for TV, for a TV audiences, not Jack and Doris who've been standing on the fourth bend for the past 60 years. What product is that then ..Tv audiences tend to be Jack and Doris.. Saying things like league racing is boring is your opinion not fact . Edited August 29, 2023 by orion 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikebv 10,277 Posted August 29, 2023 46 minutes ago, truthsayer said: Maybe I am not making myself clear. What I'm talking about is a product for TV, for a TV audiences, not Jack and Doris who've been standing on the fourth bend for the past 60 years. Maybe UK Ice Hockey is a model that could be followed? Clear demarcation through the leagues... With the top league being the one that sells the sport... And the other division being very much a feeder league... 8 teams of "top level" riders with maybe five, or six per team.. The other league very much a second tier level with "old hands" and aspiring newcomers.. Ice Hockey has a similar minority profile like Speedway, but seems to get better crowds... You don't need many teams to be successful but do maybe need a geographical spread to have enough of the regions knowing the sport exists relatively close by.. Run this "Elite League" on the TV and let the other league (or leagues), live off the back of it.. Less really could be more, as currently meeting after meeting of "contrived nonsense" does the sport nothing but harm... Seven home meetings of high quality, well promoted meetings, all promoted as stand alone events, might just work... Top four into the play offs.. To provide enough meetings, the clubs could then make up another competition without all of the top level lads, using made up septets like we currently have. But do it well away from the TV cameras and keep it within the in house streaming... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tim G 512 Posted August 29, 2023 8 minutes ago, truthsayer said: We're trying to build a product which appeals to broadcasters, which hopefully attracts sponsors who see value in the coverage. That's a revenue stream. If the product is good, and the promoter good, there's no reason why they shouldn't be able to draw a big crowd - especially if they bring in a big name GP rider to the event. Why would a TV audience be more interested? Where do we start... The sport is broken. It does not have the 42 riders it needs to put on three matches on a Monday night without reverting to borrowing players from other teams. This is literally under-10s football stuff. League racing is boring. It is not credible. There's no prize at the end of the night. It just drags on and on. Made for TV means a meaningful conclusion at the end of the final race. There's no filler riders, but an equally matched competition. It's a chance to restart the sport and engage with a new audience who don't have the time to try to work out what the heck is going on. Your sport is dead. It needs to do something. I still maintain its saviour will be developing a product for competitors rather than spectators, but one thing I am sure of is that stubbornly hanging on to league racing as the only game in town will not be the answer. The audience gets older, the competitor numbers get less and the venues go. New thinking is needed and the whole point of this thread was to open the debate about new formats for the sport - but it seems no-one's too fussed because 'we don't like that'. Well we have a multi round individual event in Cardiff this weekend let see how many people bother going to that. The attendance is getting lower each year because people don’t seem to be so interested in individual speedway. I think you let your hatred of team speedway cloud your judgement on this one. Speedway will only survive at a very few tracks if it becomes more about the competitors rather than the spectators. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
truthsayer 234 Posted August 29, 2023 25 minutes ago, orion said: What product is that then ..Tv audiences tend to be Jack and Doris.. Saying things like league racing is boring is your opinion not fact . I don't really agree with that. Yes Jack and Doris watch Coronation Street but there is a huge audience of people who watch live sport on TV, people like myself who avidly watch Speedway Grand Prix but can't/won't go out to watch on the terraces. Middle aged blokes mainly. TV is the showcase for the sport. It brings value to sponsors, it opens up new audiences and should have a trickle down effect if done properly. My statement that league racing is boring is indeed opinion, however the dwindling spectator numbers and closing venues are facts, as are the lack of interest outside of the sport. Speedway needs to change a lot, starting at the bottom, but redefining the TV product is one of the quickest things it can do to delay the rot while other things are addressed. With even less venues next year there will be even less credibility to the sport. A made for TV series feels like the right thing for me. No one is saying stop the leagues, I am just suggesting what they have is not suitable outside of the anorak audience and never will be. Even diehards reckon it's crap and contrived... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DazS 430 Posted August 29, 2023 1 hour ago, mikebv said: Its a knockout had credibility and kudos in winning... If UK Speedway had ran it, it would be... "Tonight representing France is"... "Italy".... yes but we did have the joker. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
truthsayer 234 Posted August 29, 2023 I have no hatred of team speedway and I think it has a place, but in my opinion it is contrived and outdated in a society which is looking for more simple solutions. Cricket is the closest example and the simplification and reinvention of the game generated massive interest. If the spectators are no longer going, and we are not trying to make a product for participants, the ending is inevitable. 5 minutes ago, Tim G said: Well we have a multi round individual event in Cardiff this weekend let see how many people bother going to that. The attendance is getting lower each year because people don’t seem to be so interested in individual speedway. I think you let your hatred of team speedway cloud your judgement on this one. Speedway will only survive at a very few tracks if it becomes more about the competitors rather than the spectators. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
orion 7,615 Posted August 29, 2023 36 minutes ago, truthsayer said: I don't really agree with that. Yes Jack and Doris watch Coronation Street but there is a huge audience of people who watch live sport on TV, people like myself who avidly watch Speedway Grand Prix but can't/won't go out to watch on the terraces. Middle aged blokes mainly. TV is the showcase for the sport. It brings value to sponsors, it opens up new audiences and should have a trickle down effect if done properly. My statement that league racing is boring is indeed opinion, however the dwindling spectator numbers and closing venues are facts, as are the lack of interest outside of the sport. Speedway needs to change a lot, starting at the bottom, but redefining the TV product is one of the quickest things it can do to delay the rot while other things are addressed. With even less venues next year there will be even less credibility to the sport. A made for TV series feels like the right thing for me. No one is saying stop the leagues, I am just suggesting what they have is not suitable outside of the anorak audience and never will be. Even diehards reckon it's crap and contrived... As I said before you going on about crowds going down ..But then your answer is to bring something back that crowds never wanted to watch. These anoraks thought your idea was crap years ago.. Tons of reasons why speedway gone sour but its has little to do with League speedway .. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
truthsayer 234 Posted August 29, 2023 2 minutes ago, orion said: As I said before you going on about crowds going down ..But then your answer is to bring something back that crowds never wanted to watch. These anoraks thought your idea was crap years ago.. Tons of reasons why speedway gone sour but its has little to do with League speedway .. We're talking about different things here. You're talking about the legacy audience attending meetings. I am talking about an audience watching on TV. Maybe you are right, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe we're both wrong... but I am pretty sure there needs to be a new 'product' and if it's not individual racing, what is it? You say nothing to do with league speedway, so what? At least I'm trying! Current league speedway has little credibility. There are not enough riders, it is contrived and a result is often a foregone conclusion. There's no trophy ceremony, big cheque or rider driving off in a new car he just won. There's no 147 or nine-dart moment. There are no heroes, just a bunch of journeymen. A national audience doesn't care about Poole, or King's Lynn, or Peterborough or any other provincial town team. Genuinely, they might be your team but the world don't care. Speedway can take many formats: amateur racing where competitors pay, carnie racing, like WWE, bangers and pantomine, with goodies and baddies playing to an audience looking for a fun night out, pairs, team racing and serious individual meetings which are (in my opinion) the purest form of motorsports. But the stubborn insistence that team racing is the only way will be the death of the sport in the UK. It's not a pro sport and can't sustain itself on gate revenue. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
