orion 7,615 Posted September 29, 2023 9 minutes ago, mikebv said: Sometimes it is probably best that the sport gets hardly any mainstream coverage... And you can add Jack Smith riding against his parent club, and ultimately making a key difference for a team who he doesnt ride for, to the mix... As for Guests, a proper RR facility would cover a No1. The next two riders could take all his rides and still do their own and Ht 15.. Years ago a No1 scored a large % of the teams points, particularly in the 13 Ht era, meaning they were a big miss, now it is more shared around the team so less differential between HL's.. Still, we get to another season end, and this year two more have gone by the way side... Same old, same old, rinse and repeat... Works so well doesnt it? What have two teams going got to anything ? the reason they are going have little to do with speedway rules . 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AceBelle 43 Posted September 29, 2023 27 minutes ago, mikebv said: Sometimes it is probably best that the sport gets hardly any mainstream coverage... And you can add Jack Smith riding against his parent club, and ultimately making a key difference for a team who he doesnt ride for, to the mix... As for Guests, a proper RR facility would cover a No1. The next two riders could take all his rides and still do their own and Ht 15.. Years ago a No1 scored a large % of the teams points, particularly in the 13 Ht era, meaning they were a big miss, now it is more shared around the team so less differential between HL's.. Still, we get to another season end, and this year two more have gone by the way side... Same old, same old, rinse and repeat... Works so well doesnt it? jack smith is a glasgow asset not b/vue !! he has quoted this on his facebook page ! but b/vue do pay him 95% of his wages this season riding for the colts so you can understand why Lemon was annoyed !! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SUPERACE 440 Posted September 29, 2023 21 minutes ago, AceBelle said: jack smith is a glasgow asset not b/vue !! he has quoted this on his facebook page ! but b/vue do pay him 95% of his wages this season riding for the colts so you can understand why Lemon was annoyed !! I think that was most people's issue, Belle Vue paying his mortgage this year and he scores 4 points that made a difference in the tie. This is not Jack's fault of course but the sport is crazy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AceBelle 43 Posted September 29, 2023 10 minutes ago, SUPERACE said: I think that was most people's issue, Belle Vue paying his mortgage this year and he scores 4 points that made a difference in the tie. This is not Jack's fault of course but the sport is crazy. don't think smith will be riding for colts next season because of this ? that's if the colts start next season ?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SUPERACE 440 Posted September 29, 2023 4 minutes ago, AceBelle said: don't think smith will be riding for colts next season because of this ? that's if the colts start next season ?? I agree, unlikely there will be Colts next year. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikebv 10,278 Posted September 30, 2023 14 hours ago, orion said: What have two teams going got to anything ? the reason they are going have little to do with speedway rules . I would suggest it has quite a lot do with the way the sport is, and has been, ran.. Ice Hockey crowds as an example of a "small sport", averaged over 3100 a match last season.. Sheffield almost 7000.. A similar 3100 average crowd for Speedway and each meeting would generate £65k to £70k or so... If landlords had been getting £20k a night in rent, say 20 times a year, then I would suggest a lot more would have kept the sport at their venue.. As many mention on here, a lot of fans now go simply to watch the racing, rather than bother about the result too much, as, win or lose, you cannot help come away feeling many events are contrived in either a small way, or unfortunately at times, a much bigger way... Big sponsors too will never be engaged to join in if one of their riders are allowed to help a business rival"s team try to win the title, and, at the same time, reduce his own teams chances.. The play offs get "decent crowds" as so many "Speedway Fans" come out of the woodwork to watch them, however, many of these fans who will attend the play offs, wont regularly attend the weekly meetings at their local track, due to that unavoidable feeling that lots of those meetings do, more times than they should, feel "a bit Mickey Mouse"... The big positive though, which should be taken on board, is that the sport can still attract "decent crowds", on these occasions... They just need to find a way to get these people there more regularly.. And "if" the operating model is part of the problem, then a) find out the truth of if it is or not, and b) if so, change it.. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bellevueace 913 Posted September 30, 2023 15 hours ago, Toady said: The folks that actually attend these meetings are well used to these things it isn’t like it’s new Totally agree speedway fans are used to it, but does it hinder selling it to a new audience? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
orion 7,615 Posted September 30, 2023 5 minutes ago, mikebv said: I would suggest it has quite a lot do with the way the sport is, and has been, ran.. Ice Hockey crowds as an example of a "small sport", averaged over 3100 a match last season.. Sheffield almost 7000.. A similar 3100 average crowd for Speedway and each meeting would generate £65k to £70k or so... If landlords had been getting £20k a night in rent, say 20 times a year, then I would suggest a lot more would have kept the sport at their venue.. As many mention on here, a lot of fans now go simply to watch the racing, rather than bother about the result too much, as, win or lose, you cannot help come away feeling many events are contrived in either a small way, or unfortunately at times, a much bigger way... Big sponsors too will never be engaged to join in if one of their riders are allowed to help a business rival"s team try to win the title, and, at the same time, reduce his own teams chances.. The play offs get "decent crowds" as so many "Speedway Fans" come out of the woodwork to watch them, however, many of these fans who will attend the play offs, wont regularly attend the weekly meetings at their local track, due to that unavoidable feeling that lots of those meetings do, more times than they should, feel "a bit Mickey Mouse"... The big positive though, which should be taken on board, is that the sport can still attract "decent crowds", on these occasions... They just need to find a way to get these people there more regularly.. And "if" the operating model is part of the problem, then a) find out the truth of if it is or not, and b) if so, change it.. Crowds were massive in the old days but that never stop clubs like Leicester Cradley and many others being knock down for redevelopment. .Swindon were one of best supported teams in the league but were still kick out so they try to build on the site .Rent is chicken feed to what you can make by building houses 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bellevueace 913 Posted September 30, 2023 (edited) 15 hours ago, Dornier said: Harris isn't riding with any allegiance to any team, he is riding merely for himself although I am sure he will be more than pleased if he has helped that team to a win. Its that simple. From a view of a perspective new fan riding for Peterborough Glasgow, and then being used by both play off sides Ipswich in the semi and Sheffield in the final against Ipswich doesnt exactly mirror a serious sport, even though we are used to it. With all Man Utds injuries perhaps we could use Van Dyke as a guest for Martinez:) Edited September 30, 2023 by bellevueace Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Third Man 2,217 Posted September 30, 2023 1 hour ago, bellevueace said: From a view of a perspective new fan riding for Peterborough Glasgow, and then being used by both play off sides Ipswich in the semi and Sheffield in the final against Ipswich doesnt exactly mirror a serious sport, even though we are used to it. With all Man Utds injuries perhaps we could use Van Dyke as a guest for Martinez:) Football has a 20 plus man squads, would need a lot of injuries before guests were required Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
szkocjasid 3,028 Posted September 30, 2023 19 hours ago, mikebv said: And you can add Jack Smith riding against his parent club, and ultimately making a key difference for a team who he doesnt ride for, to the mix... 18 hours ago, AceBelle said: jack smith is a glasgow asset not b/vue !! he has quoted this on his facebook page ! but b/vue do pay him 95% of his wages this season riding for the colts so you can understand why Lemon was annoyed !! Consider the alternative though, riders for Kent, Mildenhall etc, could guest in any match, but if Colts aren't allowed to guest against the Aces, they'll have less chances to guest as an RS. Seems odd that signing for Belle Vue Colts could limit your Prem chances? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AceBelle 43 Posted September 30, 2023 21 minutes ago, szkocjasid said: Consider the alternative though, riders for Kent, Mildenhall etc, could guest in any match, but if Colts aren't allowed to guest against the Aces, they'll have less chances to guest as an RS. Seems odd that signing for Belle Vue Colts could limit your Prem chances? it's a moral thing !! by all means guest but riding against the club that pay's 95% of your wages in a play/off semi-final ?? some people have no morals sadly !! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
szkocjasid 3,028 Posted September 30, 2023 (edited) 17 hours ago, szkocjasid said: Consider the alternative though, riders for Kent, Mildenhall etc, could guest in any match, but if Colts aren't allowed to guest against the Aces, they'll have less chances to guest as an RS. Seems odd that signing for Belle Vue Colts could limit your Prem chances? 17 hours ago, AceBelle said: it's a moral thing !! by all means guest but riding against the club that pay's 95% of your wages in a play/off semi-final ?? some people have no morals sadly !! I understand your point, but Smith can only guest against Belle Vue because they've deemed him not good enough to ride for them? He's surplus to requirements as Belle Vue (correctly) believe Bailey to be stronger, so in theory shouldn't score any points, if they lost out - need to blame themselves for not riding well enough, that's my view anyway. Edited October 1, 2023 by szkocjasid 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Third Man 2,217 Posted September 30, 2023 Just for the record Jack Smith is a Glasgow asset not a Belle Vue one 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
orion 7,615 Posted September 30, 2023 1 hour ago, szkocjasid said: I understand your point, but Smith can only guest against Belle Vue because they've deemed him not good enough to ride for them? He's surplus to requirements as Belle Vue (correctly) believe Bailey to be stronger, so on theory shouldn't scire any points, if they lost out - need to blame themselves for not riding well enough, that's my view anyway. Spot on Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
