BWitcher

Not even the BSPA could try this.

When did I say I had the winning formula? I've told you categorically, 100%, without even a shadow of a doubt that implement the proposal he put forward of no riders above a 6.00 average from last years top flight and you will have a number of clubs close, clubs that have been traditionally very stable. It won't happen anyway, even the BSPA aren't stupid enough to go with such a nonsensical idea.

Bless. If was talking nonsense this conversation wouldn't even be taking place. You were doing well in that period because you were winning things.

?? Utterly irrelevant to what I have said. I don't dispute any of those things. Indeed having a larger league can be beneficial for the reasons I have mentioned. A larger league creates more 'stars'. It means the top riders meet each other less, lose less, build up a mystique and make you want to see them.. and when they do lose, it's an event. That's how it was in the 70's and why it was so enjoyable I have little doubt. Some seem to think I am knocking that period, of course I'm not.

That is the entire point. An 18-20 team league gives the impression of there being a multitude of top class heat leaders. Craig Cook is one prime example. Again you are talking about Britain, that's irrelevant on the World Stage. You 'think' the riders were better solely because of the size of the league. The bigger the league, the more higher averaged riders you will have, the more you see them win, the better you think they are. That's simply mathematical fact. In an 18-20 team league, with no Heat 13 or Heat 15 it is again simple maths that teams will have an out and out number 1 and a couple of decent heat leaders.

Your assessment is that of a guaranteed business loser. Period. You' and promoters are offering absolutely nothing and your ONLY basis is "newcomers won't know the difference'. Absolute nonsense. They might not for their first meeting, if they happen to stick around they will find out within a couple of weeks. You still have not grasped that your 'excellent' strategy has now been tried about fifteen times over the last 20 years or so and it has FAILED EVERY SINGLE TIME and only made the problem worse.

Of course Greaves is a 'wobbler', if you are deeming a wobbler to be someone way below the standard of the top riders in the league. Not entirely sure what Greaves has to do with anything, the British League is an irrelevance in a conversation such as this. Back in the 70's and 80's the British League was the top division. Now it is the Polish division and if you are seriously suggesting the British League standard in the 70's and 80's is higher than the Polish League standard of recent years you've got your head screwed on backwards. There are riders who would have been 9pt heat leaders in the British League in the 70's and 80's who wouldn't get a team in Poland. They've moved on, we haven't. I can name a number of riders way, way below the standard of the top guys in teams in the 80's. Chris Cobby, Richard Smith, Andy Sumner, Torben Hansen, Peter Schroek, Carl Bodley, Lee Edwards, Ade Hoole, Flemming Pedersen... those are just some for one team, Wolves, that I can recall of the top of my head. Personally I think 'wobblers' is a disparaging term, but they were well, well below the level of the heat leaders of the time and you would never see a rider anywhere close to that standard in the Polish top flight as it is now. A few more I can remember from Cradley include David Haynes, Anthony Boyd, Mark Meredith, Carl Robinson, Lance Sealey... Bradford would have riders such as Phil Disney, Stuart Parnaby, Simon Green, Bryan Larner, Darren Pearson.. I could go on. As for the Backtrack issue, I'll have to check when I go back to England next and get back to you. Perhaps 'numerous' is OTT but there were certainly two or three interviews I read of that nature and they weren't 'top' guys either who might have had the natural talent. My point is quite simply there is absolutely zero chance of that sort of thing ever happening now. Incidentally, I don't include riders who progressed from grass track in this as they could adapt quite quickly as was shown many times over the years... sadly a source of rider that has pretty much dried up now.

I grasp the importance completely. The importance is to STOP following the same tried and FAILED approach of lowering the standard. No business anywhere will succeed if their game plan is to year on year continually offer a worse product.

Pray, tell me how you judge how good a rider is? Ah yes, how many races he wins.. as such, if you're racing against a lower overall standard, you're going to win more races, doesn't mean you are better. Your thinking is completely flawed. Next you'll be claiming how strong a league was because of all the 10pt heat leaders! You don't remember very well then do you. There were plenty of 'wobblers' riding at reserve. As for tough? It was a better standard, but nowhere near the level of the Polish league now.

Why isn't it viable? Why have the crowds continued to walk away? If you continue to do the very things that have played a part in those fans walking away, it will never become viable. It's not rocket science, basic business!

Wolves would be closed within 2 months. But as you say it means very little.

You are wrong, you just don't know what you are wrong about. The standard of World speedway is far higher now that it ever was, mainly due to the Poles. Not necessarily the very top riders, but the depth and professionalism of all the others.

Numerous interviews in Backtrack of it happening, all from the 70's.

No, what you are trying to say is the standard of the British League is so poor nowadays. The standard of the top league in Poland has never been better.. So what if Gollob pulled of moves. Aim of the game is to win races, which Nicki across the world was better at. Gollob was great in Poland and on tracks that suited. Nicki was better all round.

I don't need to be told it, it's blatently obvious. Riders are fitter and more professional from the very top all the way down. You don't have riders reaching World Finals who turn up with a bike strapped to the back of the car. The leagues were generally a poor standard in the past, period. You could turn up, ride a bike for the first time and be in a team within a few weeks. All documented in Backtrack interviews. Chances of that happening now? Zero.

Yet the reality is, they are competing in a much tougher era with far more professional riders from top to bottom.

Yeah. He finished 3rd, unbelievable poor performance.

No consistency because the overall level is higher than it has ever been.

Quite possibly one of the most deluded posts I have ever seen. Attendances don't double when top level meetings now are run at £10, yes they go up, but they don't double. Reduce clubs like Wolverhampton and Poole to NL standard, they'd be lucky to get half of their crowd, regardless of cost. Wolves had a National League level team once, they even had club legend Graham Jones come out of retirement to lead it. Vastly reduced prices. They were lucky to get 50 paying supporters. The much more expensive top flight team with the 'names' was pulling in decent crowds.

Course not, doubling up has no effect at all does it! Fans flock in their numbers to see a team of guests, you never see them complaining. Fixed nights are absolutely imperative. It is an absolute insanity that the two leagues have continued to run on the same nights for so long allowing the identity of teams to be eroded.

It says absolutely nothing that my view has attracted 'adverse comment'. When my original proposals were made many years ago they garnered one of the highest number of likes ever seen on the forum. Many of those have long since stopped watching the sport. The damage done to the sport since is unforgiveable. We've had 20+ years of utterly wasted TV coverage.

I've stated many ways to turn it around, over and over and over. The same conversation has been had at the end of EVERY SINGLE season since the advent of this forum and before. Every single time the answer has been the same.. "Cut the standard and the costs". Every single time it has failed miserably and simply made the problem worse. Pointless asking these head in the sands. They seem to live in a fantasy world where everyone would flock to see junior racing. As someone who season after season travelled the length and breadth of the country to every single home and away meeting before moving abroad (although when I am in England I still do the same), should the standard be cut to the levels proposed, I would be done. That's one of the most committed fans there is. Not only that I know of many, many others who wouldn't be interested, those that haven't already walked that is.

Five years or so ago the attendances were higher than they are now, and we didn't have 'many of these Big names', the league had already been weakened a lot, but it was stronger than now. Five years further back the attendances were higher still.. and so on.

It doesn't matter if prices are put up. Weaken the product, more fans will walk away. It seems the only idea the BSPA can ever come up with is.. weaken the product.

No, you are talking just like a promoter. All the sport has done for the last 20 years is lower the standard of the product on offer.. whilst still increasing prices. Fans have continued to walk away. Essentially dragging successful clubs down to the level of the weakest.