YeOldPitGate

But with no Brum and if Oxford drop out of Prem, Poole have no interest in moving up , nor Glasgow how do you see a five team league (at best) functioning ?

Agreed and yet 90% of clubs still make losses so the point is costs along with a multiple of other things show the format isn't working a top team of only 7 clubs with one definately gone and three rumoured under threat of running in the top league speaks volumes around costs/losses. It might well be beyond the point of no return all i'm saying 3k turning up the other week at Poole shows people will still turn up to watch a team of premier league second strings and two point men in numbers so long as that team is put out 90%.

I'm normally on the same page as you Mike but think a championship standard league set up of say 12-14 five man teams is the way to go, I love seeing the top boys on tracks where they can truly display their skills but we can't afford them. I have said before when Rob Lambert turns up for one of his brief stints he's a brilliant rider to watch, but is probably on 4-6k per meeting and I reckon he won't add 50-100 on the gate the numbers just don't stack up. Look at Poole the other week 3k turning up to watch premier league second strings and two point men its about getting a team out that's there for the fans for 90% of meetings. The Ford's are shrewd they know moving up is financial suicide and they are a well run club look what's happended to Brum they signed Lindgren last season even with Wolves closed and the crowd numbers were still utterly terrible.

I can remember going down to Ippo not so long ago for a lynn derby that pulled in over 5k, no days anything scraping over a thousand people is considered bumper.

Its super difficult but how much longer can the current ever worsening status quo limp on ? if we assume Brum are gone, Oxford just do champ, nobody with any financial sense wants to move up, if Sheffield and Leicester did stop running that leaves Lynn, Belle Vue and Ippo to drop down given two are reasonably wealthy clubs by Speedway standards could three more clubs be fitted into the championship and premier league is done.

Went by the stadium earlier and someone was having a really good look at the pit gate.

I'm currently reading the late John Berry's book he was picked to be the head honcho in the late 80's and I reckon would have given it a good go but it all fell apart before it got started due to restrictions put on him from the get go.

I'm not disagreeing Ian more a case of the fact you can't get hardly anybody to ride here anymore even those starting out 90% don't want to know, look at the situation at Berwick three established riders, r/r and three reserves who are out of their depth most of the time but they don't seem able to find a rough diamond anywhere to take a chance on a 4 point average even.

Another sad fact of state of UK speedway where it looks like Leicester going to try and go with R/R for rest of season for Becker.

Agreed Phil few would be willing to host it and risk running at a loss, it doesn't help with Tai injured there's only really two strong riders Lambert and Bewley, did you used to go in the 80's & 90's when Coventry hosted generally pulled in a crowd of 10k plus and you had the likes of Wigg, Tatum, Cross, Havelock, Silver, Doncaster, Morton, Evitts all as contenders with another 4-5 as spoiler like Marvyn Cox great days.

Christ if you were on the old second bend you must remember nut he was a wirey sort closed cropped black hair from memory when Richard Knight would circle round he would come out of the bar and bellow "Richard Knight " at 20 thousand decibels about 8-10 times then he would head straight back into the bar and carry on sinking his pints I don't think he ever watched a single race, he had about 5-6 mates who used to drink with him mid 80's to early 90's was my time at Saddlebow.

Morning all , I was watching some old 1980's Youtube videos on speedway last night, and it brought back memories of when I was in late teens and used to watch Loram and Gustaffson at Lynn both masters of balance. I stopped going probably 1990 ish. I wonder if anyone has any stories of what went wrong between Bill Barker and Malcolm Simmons they took over Lynn in 1988 from memory put together a power house team that for what ever reason didn't work out then they then had a falling out. Bill Barker should have been in stand up I used to go to the winter talk in's and he was pure comedy and was on the terraces selling raffle tickets but it was clear he wasn't happy with Simmo for some reason. The terrace charecters I remember were Wild Wayne who used to do the war chant and a fella me and one of my best friends christianed Nutter who used to spend all his time in the bar on the second bend downing pints he looked hard as nails and wouldn't watch any of the racing but would come out and go mental whenever Richard Knight circled round from memory nutter later did the same for Amando Dalle Chelle. Any stories would be appreciated from anyone who remembers the charecters and can throw a bit of light on what went wrong with Barker and Simmo, seem to remember there was a hu ha with Barker and someone burgling his house. Does Wild Wayne still go , would imagine Nutter is now pushing up daisies given the amount of pints and fags he would smoke during the meeting he was pure north lynn hard as but he was a proper character.

Hi didn't Laura end up throwing the towel in though due to massive ongoing losses ?

Whats he supposed to have done now Blobby ?

Fair point but you get my drift if you could do away with it, it shows there is still a market for the sport (in this case even as you say where 5 are doubling up).

Didn't go to the meeting so can't comment on the track, but that aside maybe there is a glimmer of hope , a track runs on its preferred night, it has a team that is manned by riders who are 90% plus committed to riding in the UK and over 3k turn up. Granted its against decent opposition and a new talent was being wheeled out. However it goes to show if you could get rid of doubling up, multiple guests, run on your preferred night, promote the sport locally, try and keep 3-4 of the team year after year so supporters can relate to them you might have a chance of breaking even or making a small profit. If you had of had Holder and Ward there v Doyle and Emil last night you would probably have got 4k plus in but it goes to show if things fall into place there is still a market for speedway at a rider level seen last night even though the super stars weren't there.

Don't disagree with that but what does a complete overhaul even look like, is it an option given even half the championship riders , ride in Poland so UK would probably still be stuck with Mon-Wed to run on, the three most unattractive nights of the week (I know Poole love Wednesdays).

When's this young dane do to start at Glasgow ?

I think I have a reasonable idea who you are and yes from memory you were viewed as a progressive during your stint in charge and turned the club around where it is now viewed as one of the better championship sides. Its a tough gig, being a promoter is pretty much pouring money into a bucket with a huge hole in it, much as I admire the way the Ford's run a club, Matt must be secretly gutted he didn't offload it when Holder and Ward were in their pomp, he had a six figure sponsorship deal at one point that started with a 2. People put the boot in to the Ford's but it would probably be easier/less costly for them just to shut up shop and walk away but to their credit they are keeping the club going even though like most teams the resale value now is pretty much nil.

Very interesting piece, do you mind me asking how long you promoted for and what was the final straw that made you decide to get out of the game ? no probs if you prefer not to disclose.

Matousek v Wilson Wilson was perfect size for a speedway rider I drifted away from sport when he was probably very early 20's he looked a natural talent but from memory he probably never reached the very top for what ever reason.

Sadly its a proper mess the promoters take flak and as Mike BV has said before they are well meaning amateurs, look at poor old Tolley he's made some proper howlers but equally the poor old boy has probably poured somewhere between 500k to a mil down the toilet such is his commitment. Most of the promoters have other business's where I guess they operate successfully, I truly think the last role of the dice might be 8 five man teams operating at current championship standard the rest need to be national league standard but maybe let a couple of foreign youngsters in at that level but only if they commit to the entire season in the UK. Accept we are a training ground for Poland run on the best night to get fans in not what the riders want to work best for them, I love seeing the top lads but my guess is for what they are costings per meeting to extra fans through the gate its probably not enough to cover half their weekly guarantee. Look when Brum got Lindgren crowd figures barely went up, Lambert comes back to Lynn for a few weeks that doesn't mean another 1k through the gate. Also as Mike has mentioned before you have seven teams in top league, two woefully understrength , you see the same riders all the time, with 2/3 home and away, guest fests so you can see why most don't bother until you get to the semi's and the final. I remember in the 80's when Gunderson or Nielson turned up you went as that was probably the only one time you would see them all year. I wish I knew the answers but the doubling up, running on unattractive days of the week, guests galore, Brexit/Visa's, riders signing for a couple of months known up front after people have bought season tickets, Netflix, Sky , Play stations, bowling alleys, multi plex cinema's, hundreds of eateries open on a Sat night massive competition for a quid now. You would though have thought that promoters would have tried to get those who no longer attend to fill in a questionnaire as to why they fell out of love if its not for the reasons already listed.

That's before you get onto the semi funded public sector pension Liabilities, re student loans hundreds of millions have been fleeced by Romanians over recent years, the other legal fiddle is mature students who realize they can work part time and manipulate income down to max out on the living costs loan, equally if your a mature student living on your own you can potentially get council tax down to zero for three years. You then finish the course and so long as you make sure you never earn over £28,500 gross per annum (increasing by inflation) again (you can pay any excess above £28,500 into a pension) you never pay a penny of the loan back. So work two day per week go to Uni for the other time (1-2) days per week get a tax free living loan and spend your days in beer gardens, you can see why so many are doing it.

I work in financial markets and can give you a ringside idea of where we are (bear in mind the EU and USA are in a worse place than us but I will relate this to UK) As a country we owe nigh on £3 trillion built up by living beyond our means for decades, this was sustainable when interest rates were near zero but given 10 year government bonds are now nigh on 4.5% roughly 10% of the entire £1.3 trillion total UK tax (income tax ,vat etc) take just pays the interest on our debt (not a penny in debt repayment, the debts are just forever rolled over). Now also bear in mind during covid £400 billion was printed out of thin air to pay for all the furlough etc this money was probably set at 0.5% interest rates or less this also will be due for refinancing soon at north of 4%. So we are screwed x 10 whoever runs the country knows all choices going forward are bad so it will be more taxation or more money printing out of thin air to add to the £3 trillion which is no free lunch as its what causes inflation and just means the pound in your pocket is worth less so you have to run harder to stand still. Onto speedway I was really into it when Loram, Screen, Louis, Henka , Rikardson were all starting out in the UK and drifted away in my early 20's as preferred night clubbing and chasing women. However in the late 80's, Sky was in its infancy, you didn't have Netflix, Xbox/Playstation, multi plex cinemas everywhere, online shopping. mobile phone contracts, broadband contracts and the product although in decline was way better than now so Speedway didn't have to compete so hard for the pound in your pocket. Who would have thought thirty years ago Blockbusters would crash and burn , hundreds of pubs would close, its a real shame as the world cup last four races a couple of years back where Magic beat Lambert shows what a great spectacle the sport can be but it gets it wrong so often and as Dean says these days 40% are probably just keeping head above water and would rather spend small dispsoable on Nextflix, Amazon etc. I really think it might be curtains next year as even if you go five man teams assuming all current championship run you will still have to find 10-15 new riders assuming 4-5 drop down from premiership which would have been doable 1980/90's but I'm not so sure now.

Only way I can see things surviving is with five man teams of championship standard maybe 8-10 clubs in the new top league. All the top boys would have to depart as we can't afford them and ideally you would need riders who would be committed to being in Britain for 90% of the time needed. The rot set in during the late 80's and we have limped through to the current last knockings the question is even with five man teams will you find enough riders for UK at Championship standard. We can't carry on as we are and that decision looks like it will be forced onto promoters by events next year even those who want the current status quo to continue will have to accept it. You have the riders dictating the racing nights and thus end up with teams running on Mondays which is probably the least most attractive night of the week for your average punter. Going to be an interesting winter that's for sure.