False dawn

I remember the year when the modern laydowns were banned by the British leagues on cost grounds. I went to Hull with a lot other fans to see Sam and Simon W riding theirs in an invitation event. People were fascinated by the technology. I guess it depends on the fans!

Laydowns in the 1920's? http://www.cybermotorcycle.com/archives/speedwaybikes/mckevoy.htm Don't tell me riders haven't been chasing that technological genie since we took road bikes and went racing. Even the discussion isn't new!!! http://www.speedway-forum.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=46346&page=1

You don't remember Jawa vs JAP? Jawa vs Weslake. Everyone vs The Neil Street 4 valve? Jawa vs the 4 valve Weslake? The 4 valve Jawa vs everyone? Are you kidding?

Jason has to learn that winning a multi round championship, takes more than being faster than everyone else most of the time. Don't be in the wrong place at the wrong time and if things don't go your way, don't throw your teddies out, accept you did something wrong and get on with it. He has turned me off several times, at league meetings and elsewhere (*). Better men than he have accepted defeat with much better grace. Just because he's "supposed to be World Champion" doesn't make it happen. There's more to being a champion than speed and desire. Jason doesn't need a sport's coach or a better tuner. But a personality tuck might not come a miss. *For example: He came to Brandon as the Leicester No.1. In his last ride he was excluded, harshly even in my opinion. But then when Leicester won the meeting, he did not join his team mates on the lap of honour. I have experienced two similar examples of poor behaviour. This will bite him.

Not sure about your suggestions (all worthy)....... But I would ditch the TR option and reintroduce the old TS rule. Also give the losing side (6+ points) choice of gates until they are less than 6 behind.

Hey, I'm a student of averages and statistics. Mr Shovlar and others have accused me of predicting the future based on past form. A dubious attempt at best, in their opinion. But sometimes the numbers don't lie. Yes, there are still no guarantees, but they do indicate a likely outcome. Given a big enough sample, the statistical significance of a set of numbers will give us a likely outcome. My "off the cuff" prediction tonight was no such thing. The numbers suggested such a result could happen and that, actually, it was overdue. It still may not have happened and I could have said nothing and hoped no one noticed. But check the records. I haven't made many predictions and especially one so outlandish. I'm cock-a-hoop Leicester pulled off the win but it was on the cards. Trust me, my daughter's a doctor.

Oo, I think you should talk to Poole and how they guaranteed a victory over our Bees in the play off finals a while back. The fireworks and champagne were quite memorable.

That's a big leap. "For you" suggests I'm a Leicester fan. Nigel would turn in his grave. In the 70's when I couldn't get home to Brandon every week, I was able to get to Blackbird Road. I did, of course, always shout for the opposition. Leicester are the auld enemy. But I am a proper speedway fan. Be it National League or the Ekstraliga I enjoy a good race between committed competitors. Leicester deserved their win tonight. BV are a first class side but they had an off night and Leicester were at their best. The joy of the unpredictable eh? (unless one foresaw what was going to happen!)

In all seriousness, I said to my wife after about heat 2, "I wish we were at BV tonight". I just had a strange feeling that this was going to be a cracker and that Leicester were going to produce a surprise. Danny King and Josh Bates were at their best. Kim Nilsson was below par. Considering those facts and Leicester ran RR for Pawel, you could have expected a home win. But that didn't allow for Lasse having his best meeting of the year, bar none. His 3 paid 4 from his first two rides were par for the course. 4 straight wins after that were exceptional by anyone's standards. Paid 16 deserves praise indeed.

Greatness is transient. There have been (not many) riders that for a while have been unbeatable. I remember Ole having a purple patch when he was at Coventry. He went everywhere and it was big news if he dropped a point. One trophy after another, league racing was a guaranteed maximum in every meeting. Almost boring. But it didn't last. Was he less of a champion after that? No, of course not. But absolutely imperious, no. The difference between really good and jaw droppingly great is very small. But PC at his best, Bruce, Ivan, and a small handful of others at their best have experienced that feeling of invincibility, What must that be like?

Depends on how good your crystal ball is!

One of that Coventry team that would have been wooden spoonists. Along with Danny King (12+2) and Josh Bates (9).

Let's not make too much of this. Although I'm tempted since I sort of predicted it (I can't tell you how good that feels). Belle Vue will come back stronger (want to argue with my prediction?) you just watch. Getting beaten by the leagues whipping boys, who would have thought? (Guess who?) I might dine out on this for a while. If, you know who, wins the World Champs, you'll never hear the last of it.

I told yer......

All that is true. But play the percentages. Don't start 30 heats of racing with 6 riders, no number 8 and no chance of a late stand in. And for goodness sake, don't ride against the same club twice on the same night. That's just plain daft.

Ah but. As one poster has already pointed out, if you don't have the daft situation whereby you're riding against the same club twice, you already have 7 potential guests present for the second meeting.

Well it would certainly avoid that embarrassing conversation at the promotion relegation meeting on TV........ "So tell me Kelvin. Does that mean that Leicester are now relegated and Glasgow promoted?" "That's a good question......"

Even more interesting that it was 31-29 after 10 heats. Then the final 5 heats were all 5-1's. Rare indeed. Two to Leicester followed by 3 to BV. Leicester only had 5 race winners and 3 heat advantages and still came away with a league point. It's tempting to think they could go one better and pull off a win tonight. Heats 13 and 15 are critical.

The second match should never have been scheduled. As I said before this meeting RR wasn't a risky option. If a guest option wasn't available then why not trade the RR with the opposition and each promote a junior? We used to in days gone by and at least you have a hope of finishing the two meetings with a full side. RR is tough on riders and machinery in one meeting. Frankly, you're asking for trouble in a double header.

Sadly, that's where the name came from. But it was in reference to the Bees.

Brave words. BV are strong at home and it would take a supreme effort. If Josh Bates has a stormer, Danny gets the bit between his teeth, I still can't see it. But stranger things have happened. I suppose Leicester is a good each way bet.

Why is that when I read the Leicester team sheet I think, "That's not a half bad side" and when the results come through they get beaten, usually quite easily? They are going to pull off a massive shock one of these days if they ride to their true potential.

It seems to me that history tells us that clubs go up and down by choice. It has little to do with where they finish in the league. An end of year meeting to decide whether this happens is meaningless. However, if you want to hold such meetings between clubs considering going one way or the other, why not allow them to challenge a club of their choice in the other league and have a two leg inter league challenge? So Glasgow could challenge Leicester if they are serious about going up next year. Or King's Lynn could challenge the Isle of Wight

Why not make both legs a double header between the two teams? Two meetings between the same clubs on the same night..... I think someone tried this.

That is what I was implying. Actually a footnote in the electronic programme is all that's needed along the lines of "A and B dead heated in heat 7 so A's score and his team score are reduced by half a point and vice versa for B". Assuming the half point doesn't alter the outcome or league points and so on, this should suffice. Of course some nerd will point out that it may alter the bonus points scored. Yes it is possible to score half a bonus point. And, of course, if we ignore the half points in the official stats, the teams' points differences aren't quite right in the league tables which could (very unlikely) alter their league position. And then we get into rider averages. Ignoring a half point could just alter a riders' eligibility for a team in a redeclaration. And the real purists will squirm if we suggest that the historic records are not absolutely correct. The problems go on and on. Maybe the answer is to arrange the same two riders to meet again in the same meeting and magically have another dead heat. Then the half points would cancel out. TBH half points have always been a bit of a drag. We remember Bryan Seery, don't we, complaining in the Star when there was a dead heat because it messed up his stats for the rest of the season. Maybe we should adopt the FIM rule and declare dead heats are a no, no and the ref has to declare a winner. Actually, Is this still an FIM rule or did I dream that dead heats are now allowed in the GPs etc.? I hope not because I have a whole set of spreadsheets that will need altering to accommodate half points And finally...... Who believes in Sod's Law? If it can happen, it will. I've been around the sport nearly 50 years and I'm fairly sure it hasn't happened in that time.... A three way dead heat. On the face of it, it isn't that bad. 3 riders tie for 1st place, each get 2 points. 3 riders tie for second place, each get 1 point. But what about the bonus points?