spook

he is practicing exactly the team going out on Monday...... did you expect him to try to pick Topinka or Ward? Or are we back in the real world yet?

am I in some kind of alternate universe here or something? are you really trying to pretend not to know how things work at club level and who is really in charge at clubs?

to be world champion you also have to avoid injury...... even a Neilsen special slide off can result in injury...... its been a dangerous game he has been playing all that said hopefully his injuries are not too serious Incredible performance by the Russians and a pretty good meeting all told with some interesting lines and decent racing Mr Snapper..... i'm interested how much of that you felt was team spirit and how much was machinery? There is no doubt that the Russians' tails were up but imo the machinery was bang on right from the start....... and once again Emil's machinery was head and shoulders above anyone else

amazing stuff from the Russians so far and they took no time at all to get dialled into the track or to adapt to it changing........... I think the ref overall was probably correct in excluding Laguta because he didnt have to close the door that much ..........but as has been said all season Nicki keeps putting himself in these positions and expecting either a parting sea or for himself to keep bouncing off the fence, bikes and track and to get the ref decisions......... most riders would have backed off down the straight there because of the % chance of grief reckon we've had a prime example of why we should have #6 riders or #5 riders are able to have extra heats

oh do me a favour ..... his attitude as club manager should be far different to his attitude as national manager while the BSPA have the rules they do I felt Middlo was a good manager but Poole have one of the worst records in the modern era for investing in Brits......... did Middlo purchase and sign the riders? No of course not .............. did he have a say? ... maybe but heres the thing the BSPA set the rules and the clubs look for the best way to work within those rules........... I am fully saying that the promoters need to take responsibility for this situation and to do the best things to resolve it..... or the situation continues where the Chapmans, Fords, & Pratchetts continue their team building policies and their managers work with what they are given and of course if we are to take seriously any part of your argument here Orion can we assume that you are suggesting John Sampford should be the GB team manager?

no once again I am bang on topic.... this is about the standard of our best team..... our best team in terms of potential.... and subsequently the general volume and quality of our riders and why they are at that volume and level of quality.... I am certain that you can suggest to the mods that some topic splitting needs to take place if it is that important to you that you ignore the points.... but it wont change the fact that the promoters need to get their act sorted on this as well as RL "no hopers" .... I thought your issue was just with Danny King and the fact that Roscoe isnt manager...... I didnt realise that in your mind there is more than one 'no hoper' ...... who would that be then? and please Orion lets get real now ... this argument about team manager's and the nationalities of the club riders they manage was a non starter in Middlo's time ..... let alone now......................... by saying such a thing you are deciding you are blind to the difference between a promoter and a manager employed by that promoter ....

lol yes of course they are Pearcey.... the trouble is that the majority arent backing it up with sound reasoning as to why this is a bad decision.... how just continuing the way we have been for x amount of years (ie the slowly deteriorating approach) is the way to go........... sorry Orion but you and me have already gone around in circles several times and you are saying nothing different to before so i'll concentrate on your opening statement no I think i'm bang on the subject...... When signing Justin Sedgeman as an asset before he had even turned a wheel for them do you think Swindon were thinking about the standard of British riders and their responsibilities as a club?.... or do you think they were thinking about a free asset in this current Aussie gold rush?? The bottom line of all of this is that GB lineup 1) or 2) is not good enough and we are falling well behind the other top nations now...... and it is easy to see why when we have promoters who are prioritising assets and assessed averages..... remind me why should EL clubs be able to 'reserve' 2 free assets without doing any of the hard work at grass roots level? and apart from those at Wolves how many of these are actually British? I have no issue with overseas riders at all but I do have a huge issue with the promoters putting our riders last and giving strong backing and opportunity to riders who are consequently coming over to our leagues 2 or 3 years too early and filling up places in our grass roots system....... I do have issues with promoters who deliberately set assessed averages at a figure which will produce more riders who will increase on them than take a drop.......... and I do have issues with promoters who actually start showing off on this forum about an overseas rider who has put 5 and a half average points on his assessed average........ good luck to that rider but the point i'm making is that the promoter is oblivious to any possible fopar he is making and why To start putting this right the problem has to be acknowledged and accepted by all the key players involved...... Rob Lyon has done it but the promoters need to do it as well

I just dont understand what it is that people dont 'get' about this we dont have a 'Beckham' ..... Nicholls and Rico couldnt be described in any shape or form as 'Beckham' ...... if they were Danish or Polish they would be Kasprzak or Walasek....... in the squad but not a definite...... they certainly arent David Gollob or Tomasz Beckham Rob Lyon is not calling them 'has beens' ..... he is not saying that's it with them he is saying quite correctly that our team has not been of the standard required to win something and to do something about that it means the standard regressing slightly while at the same time the youngsters are brought on more quickly........... keep them in and nothing changes...... make a decision like this and something might change for the better I wonder just how many of those in this thread moaning about/lamenting the decision have also had a moan about the last couple of world cup campaigns............... and I wonder how many have realistically compared the 'big 5 teams' and realised that in actual fact we either already have or are in the process of reaching the stage where there are only 4 big teams and GB are now starting to fight with Russia, Finland, Germany, Slovenia etc on a different level... and that is no slur on them because even more worryingly in the grand scheme of things they are on the up The most encouraging thing is that we are now starting to finally get some high profile figures within the sport (just in the last few weeks Mark Loram, Meridian Lifts, Simon Stead, Rob Lyon) stating that work and interest in the brits is long overdue. The more this pressure builds the more it is likely that we will get some actual positive and effective actions rather than some very transparently half baked attempts to fool everyone into thinking that a training day is enough ........... training from the right people and financial backing are one side of it but the most important thing that needs changing is that British riders have to become the number one priority again... currently they are last ............... this can only be attained by the promoters making sure that no assessed average is less than 8 without bonus points in the PL at first and then looking to continue that in the EL later on when the inevitable increase of brits come through edit: I understand that a group of sorts has been setup to help the youngsters but as with most things like this little seems to be happening....at least that is being publicised anyway..................... is it not time for the sake of our leagues and general standard that a real force of a group is put together to at least report back to the BSPA with some ideas of how things could progress and the short term knock on effects at least be stomached by the promoters...................... Len Silver Peter Oakes and Neil Machin should automatically represent considering the commitment they have had to British riders over time...... I would also suggest a rider such as Loramski to give a different perspective...... and also a promoter from a Scottish club to bring the perspective of those clubs feeling 'remote' ........................... maybe the issues are more deep rooted than they appear but to find that out some effort has to be made to start with and the right intentions from the BSPA backing it

I think this could come in the same discussion as why dont GB have 2 GP's in any given season I suspect IMG try their best to protect their flagship cashcow at all costs and by holding 2 GP's or two events at Cardiff it puts the usual Cardiff attendance at risk through the money being spread too thinly

I agree and i'm not sure that IMG would disagree either but if by the end of the GP's and the Challenge they only have Gollob and Hampel through who would be a better option than Rune to join them other than another oldie in Jagus? I would have thought one of the priorities when handing out permanent wildcards is to try to make sure that they dont result in protasiewicz's, kasprzak's, chrzanowski's, walasek's etc........... I'd be suprised if Rune wasnt hanging around the 9th/10th position by the end and that would make it very easy for them to bring him back.... and probably a safer bet for avoiding disaster than Miedzinski yeah I think IMG would be really pushing things if they tried to get two in again as I just dont see how it can be justified......... unless Rico starts banging in big scores in all 3 leagues and bomber makes it as of right...............

you are gonna hate me for saying so but dont forget the brit GW.............. IMG have made it very plain that GB is to be represented in the gp's the permanent WC's are always guided by the qualifiers (as well as the final top 8) anyway so its very difficult at this stage to predict........... for instance if Jonsson and Lindgren are top 8 as expected and possibly just one of Zorro or Davidsson qualify the chances are that Lindback wont get a WC.....if both qualify he has no chance........... this is the issue that Hampel has had for a couple of years now.... he keeps messing up qualification while his countrymen don't and then end up blocking any chance he has of a WC one 'rule' IMG have never broken is to not give a WC to anyone from a nation who already have 4 in the competition (assuming Lindgren and Andersen are top 8) the competition for permanent WC's is going to be fierce this season.......... we have Holder, Harris, Zagar, Lindback, Bjerre, NKI, B Pedersen, Holta, & Hampel as tried and tested competition for the top 8....... with Pavlic, Miedzinski and Davidsson also as possibilities looking at the spread of riders vying for just 4 cards i'd be suprised if any nation who has 3 through from top 8 and challenge gets a 4th from a WC

but if someone just missed out on making the final then surely that means that not only are they not as good as freddie (top 8) but also as good as the other guys............ I think we should be urging for gp riders to be in the qualifiers as much as we can rather than worrying about riders who havent beat them however all that said....... I wouldnt be suprised if we see Freddie, or Ken drop out due to being assured of being given a permanent WC if they dont finish in the top 8 I just cant see how this would be good for the rider or the competition....... what Emil has achieved has come with a price tag and some people somewhere are paying highly for it.......... with the greatest of respect I would have thought it is extremely unlikely that Smoli would keep his head above water in the GP's without some major support....... and that would no doubt make a major dent somewhere in his confidence

haha woops I didnt realise that oh well he can be an honourary youngster

to be fair i think we have a bit of everything...... we have those younger guys on the up which includes a few who probably could hold their own in the gp's Martin Smolinski Jonas Davidsson Kauko Nieminen Maksim Bogdanow Chris Holder Adrian Miedziński Jurica Pavlic we have those guys already in the gp's .....and good enough to be there.......going through the qualification process which hopefully should keep those people happy who believe that most if not all riders should have to qualify Fredrik Lindgren Chris Harris Kenneth Bjerre we have the guy who should have been in the gp's in the last two years despite his poor qualification runs in that time Jarosław Hampel and despite the offense it may cause to some i have to say it...... and we have the guys who everyone should be and probably are dreading qualifying Lukas Dryml Magnus Zetterström Dave Watt Piotr Protasiewicz Grzegorz Walasek I would be worried if we had 16 of the last category but we dont...... something tells me at least one of them will qualify though

ok id suggest in the future that you develop something like 'banter' with me first as i'm not in the habit of accepting it well otherwise........... and that would be at the time or two days later

superb thx

I managed to get into the Piraterna site and this is the translated (google) commentary for heat 4 http://www.piraterna.se/ so its looking like gafurov may have had an ef...... in which case the issue is either with the track or something in heat 5 im guessing

i'm not sure..... it would make sense and if so I hope gafurov is ok i cant find the thread but i know fsp tried to create a key for the various forms of scorekeeping worldwide

http://www.zuzel.sport24.pl/statystyki/spotkanie/2105/ theres a huge delay between heat 4 and heat 5 in the updates on this site..... I also cant get into the piraterna site to see whats occuring........ i hope its the updater who has gone asleep and not that there is an issue

thx mrsmark well I guess mr smolinski has become the biggest bomber and tai fan today

it would be sad if he did miss out on that basis as there is no doubting that he did well someone posted that it was pre determined that it was the daugavpils semi salty.......... but tbf there have been so many conflicting things posted about this that who knows what the case is?

judging by other previous posts on this subject there may not be 8 qualifiers............ its as clear as mud as to what could happen but it all centres around the need for British representation at Coventry for the final it seems

If team Oz didnt want to qualify to the final directly I suspect that they would have had Batch and Ward in the team................... I can see the race off being poland, sweden, gb and russia with hopefully a battle between the latter 3 for the last spot in the final....... sweden would have to be favourites but i wouldnt rule out gb or russia... could be a good one

There is absolutely no need to be apologising for disagreeing with me lol ....... forums are for discussion and putting across points...... I dont automatically expect people to agree with me The startling thing for me is underpinned by the fact that he is 19... I wouldnt expect high levels of consistency from a 19 year old ... and I certainly wouldnt expect one to have almost an 8 point average ........ in fact I would expect most guys at this age to be a reserve in the PL...........also it isnt a case that Lewis 'may' be a heatleader in this country he is lol I really dont see how we can compare him to Emil....... Sayfutdinov is no average case and in fact I would go as far as to say he is a complete freak (meant in the nicest way) in the annuls of history....How many other 19 year olds have found themselves second in the world? And dare I say it but has Lewis enjoyed anything like the backing that Emil has? In fact has any British rider? I usually nod my head to most of the stuff you post Pearcey but I just dont see where you are coming from on this one when you consider the 30 average points in 5 seasons (thats a lowly 6 a season on average ) and in particular the progress made this season.... and still all at an age where the approach of most to work and life has most oldies tutting lol What would be extremely interesting is for us to be able to list 19 year old's in the 3 top leagues who have an average better than 7.87 ............. already in the weaker EL I can see that the older Kennett (22) and Holder (21) are the only two 'youngsters' with higher averages....no one 19 betters him....... in Poland we have Sayfutdinov on 8.36..... and then the next best is Zengota on 7.26............... in Sweden we have Leon Madsen on 7.58..............so obviously the EL is weaker than the other leagues.... I dont think that is in question....... and also Lewis's averages in those leagues dont match up to his home league form... but tbh it's difficult to tell as he has only had 4 matches between those leagues....... imo Lewis has something like another 6 or 7 seasons before we can start writing him off for great things and just so I can join the legends who are Tony Millard and Nigel Pearson I would just like to say the word 'nineteen' again because I dont think ive said it enough

well thats an interesting one ....... I wonder if anything can be read into that