spook

where did this post pop up from 2 days later? think you need to be more discerning when looking for someone to worship and hold up as a 'god' I wont even comment on 'scumbag'

yes of course riders choose the setup .... i'm not saying the tuner decides everything and between him and the manager they say "get on with it" ........... i'm saying that there is some tuning prep leading up to and including the event rather than this hotch potch approach we have had for years now (edit: however who better than a tuner to be correcting or positively influencing over a setup that doesnt actually suit the rider...even if he thinks it does) obviously you have the experience and know how with a lot snapper but what you are saying about tuners makes no sense...... there is no market without a product....... and a market always has a sliding scale of prices as per the quality.................... if what you are saying is the case then look out for 'spook tuning services' next week interesting what you are saying about the Carbs.... I was under the impression that the top riders sell theirs off after they have used them a couple of times

LOL are you seriously standing behind this comment? remind me again how old is Lewis? would it be 19? How much have both Lewis and Danny put on their averages this season? As covered earlier in the thread over the years Danny hasnt been in such a hurry to gain those improvements ................. but it is startling for you to say that Lewis has grounded out lol ....... he has had something like 1 season of not improving his average and this was during less professional days........... since starting at Weymouth he has added something like 30 average points ..... in 5 years ...... you only have to watch him race this season to see clearly that he has taken a step up into a different class since last season... let alone the average improvement I just dont get some of the negative mystic meg comments in this thread.............. the truth is that no one knows what the future will be in terms of the youngsters and who will make it and who wont ............. but we can see clearly the guys who are improving faster than others..... and the positive effects of fast tracking for other nations

Poland announced a squad of six (including Holta) ....... and straight away Seb became injured

no how about we see in a few years time? the posts following last nights match were so predictable it isnt true.......... surely even the most head in the clouds person can realise that the inclusion of Danny and Lewis is not based on current form and is purely based on potential............. and once that has been acknowledged (even if it caught in your throat for a moment ) then the only way of having a chance to know if it was helpful or not is in a few years time lol................ and even then it is probably unquantifiable and are we really going down the Rosco discussion route again? Do you realise a wheel hasnt even been turned yet and you are calling for Rosco to be manager? .... not that there is a bias agenda or anything I remember a similar situation on here at the start of the 07 season with people mindlessly getting on the bandwagon calling for Middlo's head............ we were told that x amount of years without a win meant he should go etc etc ............ of course the real story was that he had very little to work with in his spell as manager and he could only rely on his management skills rather than there being such competition for places that the riders already have all the motivation they need................. this discussion went on and on and on ... and I seem to remember the Swindon fans were at the centre of it then as well citing Rosco as the saviour........... who knows how much that undesirable and unrealistic 'movement' affected things.... hopefully not at all.... but in 07 we were embarrassed....... then Jim Lynch took over, used Tai instead of Simon and we didnt even make the final........... Rosco would have done better than those two guys? the simple truth is probably not...... and fortunately RL has decided the same about himself..................... as far as I know there are no miracle workers in speedway .... Derren Brown is not a speedway manager (look away Iris ) This day was always coming ....... and as per a thread I created last season you (and yes you robins as well!) can give yourselves a pat on the back for accepting the team building habits of the promoters for all of these years without question or word......... our national team and highest level of our riders has steadily decreased over the years and it has been in tandem with the sheer volume of overseas riders coming in................. this has nothing to do with overseas riders being more exciting....... nothing to do with a lack of british riders because it is years of this policy that may have caused any blockage.................. this is purely due to assets and assessed averages.................................. while you lap up the latest Slovenian signing or discuss who gets first dibs on the latest U21 sensation who has never ridden here you support the very system that causes the situation we find ourselves in now want to talk about Sedgeman now Orion?

haha tbh henners I decided that even though Pepe could easily end up winning the meeting that I wouldnt tempt fate as I dont think I could bare another GP campaign from him in fact I was going to do a 'worst possible 15 qualifiers' in terms of 3 of them being in the competition next season but I thought that was a bit negative ..... and it would be easier to do for the final anyway

lol I hadnt even noticed...... i'm afraid it was shameful copying and pasting

These are the ones i'd expect to get through Daugavpils Semi Final Bjarne Pedersen (Denmark) Jaroslav Hampel (Poland) Fredrik Lindgren (Sweden) Chris Holder (Australia) Rory Schlein (Australia) Adrian Miedzinski (Poland) Ales Dryml (Czech Rep.) Motala Semi Final Antonio Lindback (Sweden) Kenneth Bjerre (Denmark) Matej Žagar (Slovenia) Chris Harris (Great Britain) Jonas Davidsson (Sweden) Grzegorz Walasek (Poland) Dave Watt (Australia) Lukáš Dryml (Czech Rep.) I hope James Wright and Wuffy do well and make it through but its possibly a bit early bet I get less than two thirds right

Hans mechanic seems to have a particular liking for doing that as well I noticed

how convenient ...... ive heard Google is helpful... along with the usual speedway reference sites but hang on..... so are you saying that you have hung drawn and quartered him without even doing any research on the guy? ...... that sums it all up

no that is the first time you have specifically said anything............. well I hope it comes back to haunt you Orion because that then means he has proven you wrong and we have another string to our bow you didnt........... my point is that it isnt unusual for a national manager to have never managed before...... 30 years ago you may have had a point about the need for an EL manager ........ (and we wouldnt even have been having this conversation because we would have had a team of 2x 11point & 3x10 point guys) ... but not now... the EL has been a joke for some time and if we are to be in the business of favouring the managers of one league over another I would be favouring the PL as they have a greater challenge over the season Maybe you should research Rob Lyon's record? ie what he has managed to achieve, in how many years, in a league of how many clubs........

1) no that is not a good world cup..... that is naive suicide as performed well in 07 and last season by the Aussies............ its even the same track as 07! There is absolutely nothing to be gained by qualifying directly and then being embarrassed and unlike myself or Rob Lyon you would make it the 21st year of the same old same old with no light at the end of the tunnel......... do you not understand that if the cycle isnt broken it will just continue?? 2) No you clearly said that this team would do much worse than a team with Nicholls and Rico in..... you are the one yourself who is grading how successful world cups are by the stages reached.................... so bearing in mind that the same Nicholls and Rico line up didnt progress from the race off last year how on earth can these lads do any worse?............. again the bottom line is can GB win the SWC with any lineup they put out? As long as the answer is no (are you denying its 'no'?) then some progressive thinking and actions need to take place 3) "Danny King shows no reason why he would get better" Apart from being one of the better riders in his struggling team???? Apart from still being young and having plenty of improving years ahead of him??........... I'm sorry Orion but you still cannot come up with anything can you? This is just the same as Ed Kennett for you...... you either just dont like him or its a tribal thing.............The fact that we are blooding the youngsters quite clearly means that some of them wont be 9 pointers .... therefore yes you will be able to pick out the odd race where they were beaten by x rider................................... which tbh lol you can probably do with our 'stars' 4) What has 'budget' got to do with the GB manager? and do you really think that some of those PL promoters couldnt front an EL budget if they wanted to? So if we are talking about management experience and what is needed to be a world cup manager .....Craig Boyce doesnt even have management experience lol ...... let alone at EL level...............

I guess im thinking........ knowledge = tuner (amongst other things) = team tuned to a high level in the first place + adjustments on the day and a direction for the mechanics as a whole = money I hear what you are saying about not glorifying them but how is it that some are better than others then? Just the fact that they are used frequently and get better results means that they are worth getting involved....surely? ............ without this kind of central organisation to the team I should imagine there are less standards set for the machinery... ie rider A is using a specially tuned engine with sprocket size x chosen by his mechanic and a new carb............ rider B didnt bother getting an engine tuned (why should he bother if its going to cost him?)... a sprocket size of Y has been chosen by his mechanic and a carb that should be pensioned off The psychological side has been there to see and without wanting to run anyone down I dont think it has helped when our best riders have been psychologically fragile at times .... it is not the best way to lead a team that sounds interesting Trees

looks like at least 3 riders would have needed to pull out

thx GW what a shame that has absolutely wrecked not only this season but any chance of the GP's for next season as well now...........

i'm going to crash this one if I may............. so Orion 1) what exactly do you think we could have achieved? 2) last year we didnt make the final.... so if you think this team wont do as well are you saying that they wont make the race off? 3) lmao you still havent taken the time to maturely put across a reason why you are so 100% sure Danny King won't make it ... do you even have one? 4) who knows what his influence has been as KL manager, obviously their aggressive team building policy has counted for a lot........... would you say the EL is a more difficult league for a team to have success in than the PL then Orion? Can we even describe the EL as a league anymore?

well as great as it is for Wuffy to get the experience and chance to go further its really bad luck for Seb who has quietly impressed me this season how long would a boken Scapula usually keep someone out for?

you are preaching to the converted snapper yes of course this is the case ....... and the results of it are clear to see when despite Bomber gating like a pensioner in the gp's in 07, Brian Andersen had him setup so well that he could overtake where others couldnt ............ and then we have the flipside of the SWC in 07 where we had things so abysmally wrong until something like the 16th heat...... but did they have a tuner/their tuners in the pits with them? Clearly until their last rides no one knew what they were doing you cannot be telling me that we have the same support and organisation as the other big 4 snapper ........... just the money that these guys are expected to pay themselves tells the story

the world championship is an irrelevance here apart from how helpful it is to have someone who you can rely on getting a good score the poles dont need to put any youngsters in Orion because they are overflowing with talent....... but it wasnt so long back that they did because all they had was Gollob and the results are there right in front of us to be seen....... although we would have to be naive not to recognise the financial backing involved as well "and wont be good enough to ride at this level" we are just going round in circles here lol.............. maybe it would help if you clarified why you think this? My experience of Danny and it seems the majority of the speedway journalists and fans seem to think that he is a bright star for the future........... as I said before not everyone who is expected to makes it and who is to say that Woffy, Lewis (and yes lets not forget Ed again Orion ) will make it? Maybe Danny will and one of them won't??? We've all seen it before...................... who thought that Stoney and Andy Smith would stay in the GP's for so long but Joe Screen would not fulfil his promise?? Danny does have a chance of making it at the very highest level but by not giving him the opportunities when they come around it is making it that much more difficult for him to realise any promise that he does have......... and for what? To replace him with one of your favourite riders who has been a 9 pointer at best for several years and is always going through one crisis or phase to another? I like Rico but there is some truth in what others have said. If we aint gonna win the SWC what is the point in particularly making sure Rico is in the team for the qualifier?

but you've just avoided the point again.... for the last 2 decades Orion we have been having to use squads who are understrength and as soon as we gain a new guy on the up one of the older guys retires or is on the way down............. its 2 steps forward 2 steps back ......... in fact i'd say we are ever so slightly always regressing slightly we now have a crop of youngsters coming through at the same time ironically despite the promoters collectively making it even more difficult for them in recent years............... so what should we do? continue what we have been doing for donkeys years which clearly hasnt been working or maybe follow the more successful steps of the policies of the Polish and Danes in recent years? We put out Nicholls, Rico, Harris, Kennett and Woffinden last season and they didnt make the final did they? The year before it was the same team but with (edit) Stead in place of Woffinden and it was probably one of the Lions darkest night ever I think the point that you are missing is that no matter what team we put out we are not going to be winning the SWC.......... and that ultimately is why this decision has been made because the moment you can say such things with so much certainty is the day that things have to change.......... otherwise we get left behind I am not going to say that they wont make the final but they will have done well already if they reach it.......... ultimately for me personally it will be a good job done if these guys who have already bonded at U21 level gain the necessary experience around each other at full international level and help RL set the building blocks in place for the future ....where hopefully none of us can say with such certainty that we have no chance of winning the SWC

I think you do Ermolenko a massive disservice there........... when Huewen does start becoming a bit cringeworthy or too focussed on the Brits Sam visibly shuffles in his seat, looks dubiously at Keith and half the time doesnt know what to say and does the bare minimum while making sure he doesnt insult the British fans............... it is obviously far from a rehearsed scenario for him and usually quite amusing to watch if this is what is being discussed here then yeah I whole heartedly agree that Emils frustration was completely because despite his best efforts he was not scoring the points expected to stay in the title race and on the flip side Scott's frustration was probably because after everything else this season he probably didnt need the new guy to be telling him (and not leaving it alone) that he should be allowed to have every door left wide open for him to overtake when Scott has had x amount of experience in the competition and are you really trying to compare the blows traded as to which was 'best'?

and the team last season was: Nicholls Rico Bomber Kennett Woffinden 3 youngsters and 2 'old' guys.............. I dont see how this equates to too many 'has beens and not enough youth' ....... as has been indicated maybe there was a reason for Rico not being picked such as his illness?? ........ if that is the case then im sure no one would want to undermine Danny's confidence by making press statements about it well this is the interesting thing isnt it? is it actually a good thing to qualify directly? the stats say it isnt .... and I am certain that the Aussies are on the ball with that one I'm fully expecting a young Oz team now and the possibility that the 3 main teams will be reluctant to win the qualifier http://www.speedway-forum.co.uk/forums/ind...t&p=1514924 what have we been doing for the last 20 years Orion and how far has it got us? how about the last 2 years.... have you been happy with those? would you really want us to win at pboro and go directly into the final at Leszno with no race off preparation... like 2 years ago? 2007 FIM WORLD CUP FINAL Leszno Poland 55 Denmark 52 Australia 29 GB 15

im still interested in the machinery side of things.................... despite us having a relatively weak squad for some time now I still think that the level of and consistency of machinery in the team has been a huge factor and something that must be prioritised every year now because it is certainly a standard thing for the other top nations................... Lewis said on Sky that Rob Lyon had been organising mechanics a month or so ago which is obviously an important side of things ....... but it seems to me that there is no substitute for a world class tuner being onboard and servicing the whole team................. until this happens success will only arrive with a slice of fortune and if this only comes with a price tag then what is the price tag and who is willing to sponsor the national team to raise the money? Is anyone out there trying to get the sponsorship? have you ever been approached 'the know'?

I think thats the point though Ashie the chances are they will be coming back to say that they were right ........ at some stage of this SWC our youngsters of course will not be strong enough and the real benefits of this will be seen in future years a perfect scenario for people that want to score points on forums