Grachan

What have the Belle Vue management said?

You may well be correct, although it's certainly not a clear, written rule that it should be. In fact, the clear written rule says that the result should stand. So, in the end, whether or not the dispensation should be applied comes down to someone's opinion rather than a matter of fact. As I said before, whatever they do decide they need to decide it pretty soon to stop the second leg becoming more of a farce than it already is.

Johansson being able to guest for BWD is crazy! I thought people were taking the Mickey out of the Poole situation until I checked the averages. Having said that, Bradley did get a maximum there earlier in the season. Hmmmm, not really as clear cut as 15.10 though, I'd say. They have specifically stated that results cannot be amended other than for the reasons given. In other words, if the ref makes a cock up on an individual heat result his decision must stand once the meeting result is declared.

The act of removing the points, and amending the score of the match for that reason, would, in itself, be against the rules.

I thought it was a valid enough post from Gus fix. I nearly posted about Freddie Williams myself until I spotted the original post mentioned single time winners.

Wrong thread, Steve. This one is a thread about meetings between potential KO Cup winners.

Can someone point me to the rule that says the result should be amended if a riders doesn't have his full quota of rides please. I've had a look, but can only find this one. Probably an oversight on my part. 15.10 The result of a Meeting can only be amended if: a) the Referee has made an error in the recording of a heat or the Meeting Results or b ) that an absent rider, having been given a Facility is found to have ridden elsewhere in contravention to the Facility so given.

The Newman Google's thing was, to be honest, a lot of fuss over nothing. There are many instances I remember seeing riders removing goggles or face masks because they couldn't see. People were even praising riders for riding in a match at King's Lynn this year where it was raining and riders were removing goggles. Newman was actually riding at a disadvantage when he did that. The Swindon situation is a bit different as it was clearly against rules. Just hard to believe that two managers plus a referee failed to notice.

You, yourself, have made many a comment on how you think Rosco is incompetent with messing up on tactics, so I guess it's clear how you see it. Come on. It's obvious this was a mistake rather than an attempt to cheat.

I'm fully aware of that. I merely pointed out that is optimistic to expect a 42 limit - particularly after the chairman of the BSPA's own efforts to single handedly weaken the product in his own neck of the woods.

Tsk. Silly us. It's not the ref's job to know the rules is it. Surprisingly you are correct when you say that Swindon made the mistake and were at fault, but the ref is responsible for allowing it to occur. That's his job - just as it was his job to notice Newman not wearing goggles in the play-offs before.

See, this is the thing. You are so used to speedway teams cheating that you actually think this is something dishonest rather than an oversight. If the scoreline is to be adjusted, I just hope it is done before the second leg takes place so everyone knows where they stand with it. I hope some statement gets made before the Belle Vue leg - even if the scoreline isn't to be amended. If it isn't then there should be a statement acknowledging that they are aware of it and stating why no action is to be taken. If there is to be a score amendment then it needs to be done now - not in November! Both sides and sets of fans need to know. (Plus Poole fans of course, because it seems to concern them greatly too).

This is probably what happened. BWD turned up in his van and some old jobsworth on the gate wouldn't let him in. "Names not on the list. Your not coming in." "I'm a rider. I'm in Swindon's team." "Oh. Ok then." Let's him in. In he goes. Conspiracy theorists throughout Dorset suffer attack of mass hysteria.

Ok. Suppose this scenario happened. A similar thing occurs, with a rider coming in when he shouldn't, and that rider scores a point that enables the opposition to use a TR, from which they gain 3 extra points and go on to win the match by one point. If the rider who scores in the first race should have his points removed, should the TR extra points also be removed as that would no longer be valid use of a TR? In which case, the side who use the illegal rider lose one point and win the match because the team that didn't and won by a point then lose 3 points?

Why did they drop him then?

Until the BSPA say otherwise? That's a bit risky! What there should be is a set procedure for events like this, and that should be followed every time. What's the betting there isn't?

You did pretty well. All I got was a squiggle.

What should have happened, and I've seen it before, is that the ref should have put the red lights on as the riders came to the tapes and informed them that Musielak had to come in of 15m or Swindon go with just one rider. Looking at how long the meeting took, though, I guess you deserved this minor moment of entertainment!

Surely, if something is down to referee error, then it should stand? It would be the refs responsibility to notice any rule infringements and act on that. I bet old Lucifer Sam could barely contain his excitement at the prospect of Swindon being deducted points though. It's worth it happening just as an act of kindness to him!

I know Basketball has different champions for league table and play-offs. I have been to the play-off finals and they are probably Basketball's biggest day of the season. Ideally, I would prefer to have separate champions - but the problem speedway might have, if that were the case, would be making the play-offs attractive as other end of season competitions (such as Craven Shield and KO Cup as it is these days) haven't done so well in the past. If promoted properly, the play-offs could still be the highlight of the season, but, as speedway is at the moment, I think it needs the play-off champions to also be league champions in order to make the play-offs attractive.

Even 42 is a bit optimistic. This year it was, in real terms, about 37.

They could keep the play-offs, but have them as separate to the league champions and have all teams involved. Other sports such as Basketball do this, and the play-offs are still prestigious to win. Call them KO Cup or Craven Shield and nobody will care. Call them "play-offs" and they will. That's the way it is these days.

Hello Gater2.

BWD brought his bikes because Poole were making noises about protesting. He was told to bring them just in case he had to ride against medical advice, in order for Swindon to track 7 riders should Newman not be allowed to ride. This has been clarified by the Swindon management, so I don't see why people are sneaking this information out as some sort of amazing piece of inside information. What's the big deal with Newman being booked weeks back? Wilson-Dean had an injury week back, so they needed to cover their bases if he wasn't fit.

Ok. Let's have a look at Newman's races. In his first two races he was gifted his points so BWD would have got the same anyway. Then he beat Shanes. BWD is capable of that. Not saying he would have, but he is capable of it. BWD would also be capable of doing it in heat 2. Not saying he would, but... Then he had a good win, in a race in which the Poole pair were so far behind that BWD would probably have beaten them too if he was fit. Then he got a last, behind Shanes, who BWD is capable of beating. Not saying he would have, but... Not so much difference really.