lucifer sam

Steve, I'm so sorry, I've just realised I never got back to you with those other Oxford details. I should have all the details you need for the Oxford matches, I will post them by the end of the week. Apologies again. All the best Rob

Trees, I think "Mr. Meridian Lifts" would know a little about speedway sponsorship, wouldn't you? All the best Rob

Speedwayondisc, well done mate, that's got to the bottom of that. All the best Rob

So in other words, there was one than one trophy presented to the winners of the National Trophy, but ONLY one of these trophies was actually known as THE National Trophy itself. For which years did the Daily Mail sponsor the National Trophy? I wonder if any other "bogus" trophies were presented in lieu of the Daily Mail one. For instance, what about 1962? If Southampton received the original World Championship trophy for winning the league, then which trophy did Wimbledon receive for winning the National Trophy that season? Another trophy that wasn't the National Trophy at all? And if Oxford received the league trophy (i.e. the first World Championship Trophy) for winning the National Trophy in 1964, then which trophy did they receive for winning the league? In the meantime, we now have the following timeline for the original World Championship trophy: 1936-1938: Presented to winner of World Final 1962: Presented to Southampton for winning National League (was it also used for this purpose in other years?) 1964: Presented to Oxford for winning National Trophy (was it also used for this purpose in other years?) Sometime in the 1970s onwards until the present day: Presented to winner of the British Final All the best Rob

Norman, that's clarified things; so there were actually, at least, two different trophies used for the National Trophy. But John has confirmed what I thought - that the trophy presented to Oxford in 1964 was the original World Championship trophy. I didn't realise that it was still in use today, though. Are the names of Van Praag, Milne & Wilkinson still on the trophy somewhere? All the best Rob

Here, here. Who gives two hoots about the Polish League - about time they had to re-arrange their fixtures. All the best Rob

Ah, good news. Cheers Richard. All the best Rob

Hi, you've forgotten one trophy: The pre-war trophy won in 1936-1938 by Van Praag, Milne and Wilkinson. This was later re-used as the National Trophy, last won by Oxford in 1964. I wonder where that one went? All the best Rob

Are Scunny still planning their double headers on the May and August bank holidays? I'd miss these if they weren't there. All the best Rob

I hope that Buzz is back somewhere in 2011. His Heat 15 battle against Simon Lambert that I saw last year at Scunthorpe last season was an extraordinary race. Plenty of life in the old dog yet. All the best Rob

Great to see Mildenhall back for 2011. Any chance of Weymouth following? All the best Rob

From memory, I believe Craig Boyce won the 1991 Ullevi Open (i.e. the 1991 World Final "warm-up meeting"). Shortly afterwards, he was injured in the 1991 Commonwealth Final and eliminated from the World Championship. All the best Rob

Ken, I thought the programme had been wiped, so if you get hold of a copy, it may well be worth contacting the BBC, so they can add it to their archives. All the best Rob

Steve, again I should be able to help with the Oxford details. It's probably going to be the weekend before I get a chance to look at these and the 1969 & 1970 details. All the best Rob

Hi Steve, I'll look these out for you later in the week. All the best Rob

Glad to see Charles McKay's records have found a good home. The story behind the GP attendances is rather amusing - Charles knew more about them than the FIM. All the best Rob

That's very harsh. It's obviously a small typo (a 1 being typed instead of a 0) - they are the 2010 Green Sheet averages. The 2011 Green Sheets are unlikely available until being ratified at the NL conference. The BSPA website is actually very good. The other day I sent an item about Bernard Crapper and it was added almost straight away. I'm glad that you are so perfect and never make any mistakes. All the best Rob

I think the poor bloke only lasted for about 6 meetings in the 1980s, so I'm guessing not. I wonder how highly John "Cowboy" Cook will be placed when Mr. Berry does his top 20 foreign riders of the 1980s. Cookie is a legend around our parts, for stuffing his team-mate almost into the fence during the final deciding heat of the 1985 KO Cup Final, and thereby allowing Wiggy and Troy Butler to come through and clinch the cup for Oxford. All the best Rob

He's heading in the right direction then. All the best Rob

That doesn't quite fit with the Brighton Bonanza, which used to be staged indoors during December. And if the restaging had to be indoors, Newport could have borrowed the Millennium Stadium for their leg. All the best Rob

But he then contradicted himself by placing both Bruce Penhall & Hans Nielsen in the 1970s foreign top 10, on the basis on just two and three seasons respectively. Nielsen maybe, as he was a double World Champion by the end of the 1970s (1978 WTC & 1979 World Pairs). But Penhall - I don't think so. And I'm huge Bruce Penhall fan. He peaked from 1980 onwards. I'd put him in the top three foreigners in the 1980s (along with a certain two Danes ), but Penhall shouldn't feature in the top 10 foreigners from the 1970s, not given the other riders at their peaks in the 1970s. All the best Rob

Not Michael Lee or Simon Wigg then. Ah, I've got it.... Berwick is a Northern club. Congrats to Rob Grant. Seriously, I'll be very interested to see Mr. Berry's picks and his justification for them. There's several ways you can go in picking the top British rider of the 1980s. All the best Rob

Falcace, I can see what you're saying, although Chris Morton is a bit different from the other riders. Both Shawn Moran & Phil Crump both finished on the World Final rostrum, although it's true that their overall World Final record do not go anywhere near their ability. As for Schwartz, it just shows how mega-tough the American round was in the 1980s that a rider of his quality never reached the final. Chris Morton had plenty of opportunites in World Final, yet he never even got remotely close to the rostrum. It's probably down to his (lack of) gating skills, something it's very, very difficult to get away with in a World Final. Chris Morton clearly was a very talented speedway rider. But he lacks that extra something that seperates an Individual World Champion from the rest of the crowd. Something that Michael Lee had. And therefore I still plump for Lee to be No. 1 rather than Chris Morton. And if you're after consistency, I would point in the direction of Simon Wigg, a top rider for pretty much the whole decade (he spent the first few years of the decade emerging, but then again, so did Peter Collins in the 1970s). Wiggy could match Mort for consistency with the extra bonus that he could find that little bit extra in World Finals. And Wiggy's roll call of success is very, very long - he was a born winner. I agree it's an enjoyable debate, and that there's no clear-cut stand-out name. It's all down to opinion. All the best Rob

Falcace, this was my original top 20, that I put together about a week ago, but didn't post because I wanted to look at the BL averages first: 1. Michael Lee 2. Simon Wigg 3. Chris Morton 4. Kenny Carter 5. Kelvin Tatum 6. Peter Collins 7. Dave Jessup 8. Les Collins 9. Jeremy Doncaster 10. Simon Cross 11. Marvyn Cox 12. Alan Grahame 13. Phil Collins 14. Andy Grahame 15. Neil Evitts 16. Paul Thorp 17. Andy Smith 18. John Davis 19. Steve Bastable 20. Joe Owen As I said, it's uncannily like the list I then ended up with once I decided to award points. One reason I did this is because I'm not terribly objective when it comes to British riders in the 1980s. Marvyn Cox & Simon Wigg were heroes of mine, whilst I never liked either Carter or Tatum. Whereas I could be objective about the 70s, I can't do likewise in the 80s. So I thought awarding points for what I thought should be rewarded was a better way for me to do it, only to end up with almost exactly the same list again!!!! Personally, for me, Michael Lee has to be the No. 1. Watch a video of his rides in the 1980 World Final and his sensational pass of Bruce Penhall. Was there another British rider during the 1980-1989 period capable of that kind of performance? No. Meanwhile, Chris Morton was admirably consistent (although he never actually topped the BL averages), but the major sticking point is his World Final record. It's just not good enough for him to be considered the best British rider of the 1980s. IMHO the top man has to a winner - at the very, very top level. All the best Rob

Falcace, I think the World Longtrack Championship remained an important event throughout the eighties - it was only in the nineties that its importance faded as top riders elected to ride in the emerging Polish league in preference to spending Sundays in Germany for the big Longtrack events. Just look at the roll of honour for the 1980s: 1980 - Karl Maier 1981 - Michael Lee 1982 - Karl Maier 1983 - Shawn Moran 1984 - Erik Gundersen 1985 - Simon Wigg 1986 - Erik Gundersen 1987 - Karl Maier 1988 - Karl Maier 1989 - Simon Wigg Two World Champions and two World No. 2's in that list. Add in names such of Ivan Mauger, Hans Nielsen, Peter Collins and Egon Muller, and it's plain to see that the cream of the crop rode in the World Longtrack during the 1980s. The weighting of the various World Championship evetns was down to the number of riders in each championship. The Longtrack is in an individual so was 5 points, the Pairs is 3 points apiece (i.e. a total of 6), the World Team Cup is four or five riders (i.e. 8 to 10 points). I actually regard the World Team Cup as the second most important competition, but an individual has less less of an input, hence the points being shared amongst the riders. I was amazed how close the list came out to the top 20 I had written down beforehand (the top three are in the same order, Tatum & Carter simply swapped positions, as did Jessup & Collins). No doubt I was subconsciously thinking about it, as I worked out the points system - I knew what I wanted to reward. It's the same with any devised way of working out such a list. All the best Rob