lucifer sam

MM, are those the odds for the first GP or for the whole series? If they are for the whole series, it's very poor odds on Zetterstorm, Harris and Woffinden who should be around 1000/1. All the best Rob

Rami, there's a world of difference between Hans Nielsen and Leigh Adams, though. Leigh doesn't want to take the risks in the Grand Prix, whereas Hans was capable of being quite ruthless when it came to gaining even one extra point in a World Final. Hans Nielsen was a much harder rider than Leigh Adams. And Hans was very consistent at world level, while Leigh has always been very up-and-down on the world stage. Erik wouldn't have made it easy for Hans, but even one bad round out of 8 would have been too many. And Erik did have the odd blip, the 1986 World Final being the most noticeable. Looking at the 1984 to 1989 World Finals and Erik and Hans won 3 each. However, in those finals, Hans scored 13 points more than Erik - and remember, in the GP series, EVERY point counts. It shows even if Erik won half of the rounds in a GP series, he'd still struggle to win it overall against a rider who finished first or second every time. The GP series rewards consistency - look at 2008 when Nicki Pedersen was a fairly easy winner, despite winning just one round. Crump & Gollob both won more rounds, but couldn't match Nicki's consistency. All the best Rob

Jacques, however more likely is that he'll finish 13th or 14th in 2010, and then be seeded in again into the 2011 series and this thread will be repeated once more. Can I suggest the thread is retitled "Wildcards - Groundhog Day" as we've been here at least once before All the best Rob

Is Cardiff the best Grand Prix? Good atmosphere, good craic in the pub beforehand, but the track veers from totally awful to just about adequate. All the best Rob

So Rangers and Celtic reaching the final of the UEFA Cup (as both have done in recent years) are humiliating themselves? Bad example Hatcham. How many Grand Prix finals did Chris Harris reach this season?? All the best Rob

Colin, I'm proud of them when they give us something to be proud of. Like Harris at Cardiff in 2007. Sadly, since then he just hasn't cut it and do you really think a rider who has finished 13th and 14th in the last two series deserves a place in 2010, especially when the GP Challenge was on his home track and he still blew it. I have nothing against Chris Harris, in fact I think he's a brilliant rider to watch, but he doesn't deserve to be in the 2010 GP series. All the best Rob

You seriously think "Sicknote" should be in the GP series? Has April 1 come early?? And I think Gary Havelock (an active British rider) has a slightly more impressive World Chamionship medal than "Sicknote". Will you be calling for Havvy to be put into the GP series next? All the best Rob

No it doesn't. Harris is only the World No. 14 because there are only 15 permanent riders in the GP series. The likes of Lindback, Iversen and Ward would all finish ahead of him, if there were in the GP series. Harris hasn't looked remotely like finishing in the top 8 in the last two seasons - he doesn't deserve yet another chance. It's pathetic when the rider who finished 14th in the series is put back in. It means there are riders finished ABOVE Harris in the 2009 GP standings and yet Harris is back in and they are not. Seb Ulamek and Greg Walasek both should be well pissed off that a lesser rider (Harris) has been put in before them. All the best Rob

Chris, well I know he didn't and so do you. Oxford won both meetings he rode in by 20 points or more and would have would them just as easily using R/R for Chris Mills at No.1 (Millsy was a designated heat leader for the Academy in August, replaced by Ben Barker from September) as Jamie Robertson. The highly suspect introduction of Grant MacDonald at Wimbledon on a false grade (when Oxford signed Grant in 2007 he was on his proper Grade 11, so why not at Wimbledon in 2005?) nearly had far more impact on the title race. I'm sure Parsloes agrees as well. Anyway, back to topic. I agree with those who can't understand why there has to be two Brits in the series. I don't see how if would effect the attendance at Cardiff. If there was one permanent Brit in the series (e.g Woffinden) plus one wildcard (e.g. Harris), that would be more than enough and more than we deserve. What have we done to deserve to get two Brits seeded into the 2010 GP series? And when was the last time the highest ranked Brit in the world was the World No. 14? All the best Rob

Parsloes, for once we are in complete agreement. Woffinden is 100% British. In fact, some would say he's more British than Mark Loram. All the best Rob

Chris, I thought Nicholls had a poor record (qualified 3 times, seeded 5 times) but it's nothing on Harris. Nothing against the bloke, but he shouldn't be in the series next year. This year he finished 14th out of 15. It seems ridiculous that riders of the quality of Lindback and Ward are not in the series, and yet Harris is. EDIT: And Chris, there's no such thing as a permanent wildcard. He's either a seeded rider or a nominated rider. All the best Rob

So, in other words, yet another sickie from Richardson. At least the excuse was novel this time - not like "the van broke down" for the 2007 ELRC. What was the excuse for this year's ELRC? All the best Rob

Steve, well he seems to be listed as one of the four seeded riders. All the best Rob

Can we please change the title of this thread? Harris, Woffinden, Lindgren and Andersen are seeded riders - they are not wildcards. The wildcard is the 16th rider (usually from the home country) nominated for each Grand Prix. All the best Rob

All the W's - Wembley, White City, Wimbledon and West Ham. White City was demolished, Wembley was rebuilt without a speedway track and Wimbledon is still there but with unwilling landlords. What about West Ham? All the best Rob

No, it was a World Final not the Incontinental Final. All the best Rob

Humph, no I missed Katowice, I couldn't persuade my parents to do that one. I did Wembley (1981) and Bradford (1985) and then all the finals between Amsterdam (1987) and Gothenburg (1991). Apart from Wembley, my favourite World Final was Amsterdam in 1987. A much underrated final - with terrific racing on the opening night. Nielsen had clutch problems that evening, missed the start in every race and still scored 12 points. He had to pass everyone from behind, including Henny Kroeze. All the best Rob

Dekker, if flopped means getting off the floor after a horrendous fall (after being sent sprawling by Per Jonsson) and still taking it to a run-off for first place, then yes he did flop. Who was Swindon representative in 1988? And where did he finish? And who was your last World Champion - Briggo in 1966?? Remember a year later in 1989, Oxford had not only the World Champion, but the World No. 1 AND the World No. 2. At which point our "All The Rest Will be Feeling Blue When Hans And Wiggy Finish 1 & 2" banner was produced and displayed proudly as Wiggy beat Jeremy Doncaster in the run-off for second place. It even got mentioned in following week's Speedway Star. I guess success like that is difficult for a Swindon fan to relate to. All the best Rob

Well, I won't be going to any of them. Went to the 1988 World Final and the whole thing was shambolic. We ended up viewing the meeting whilst stood in a puddle because there was nowhere else to stand. All the best Rob

I was definitely not a fan of Kenny Carter (I was firmly in the Penhall camp), but I still couldn't put this book down once I started reading it. It's compulsive reading - I would recommend it. Buy it while you still can. All the best Rob

Because we went off-topic very early on. All the best Rob

Interesting. So there is much more of a correlation between averages and champions from 1965 onwards. Why is that? Is that because the likes of Mauger (who did the double 4 times) and Nielsen (3 times) etc were that much more dominant of was it because the post-war years were that much more competitive? Or was it becuase Wembley produced a big home track advantage, since Jack Parker in 1947 aside, the lowest postioned riders in the averages who triumphed were the Wembley riders. All the best Rob

Salty, whoops, that'll teach me not to read the whole thread. All the best Rob

Salty - Iris was asking for riders who had done the World Championship / top of BL averages double. None of the above did that double. And it was PC who topped the 1980 averages - Nielsen missed out by a fraction (less than 0.01). But Nielsen then topped the averages from 1984 to 1990 inclusive, therefore surpassing Mauger's previous BL record, who topped the averages for 5 sucessvie seasons (plus an extra season in 1975). Prior to 1965, I'm sure Jack Young, Ronnie Moore and Ove Fundin did the double. How many riders did the following treble - World Champion / BLRC winner / top of BL averages. Briggs did in 1966, and Nielsen in 1986 & 1987. Any others? All the best Rob

Since the formation of the British League, it's something like: 1966 - Barry Briggs 1968 - Ivan Mauger 1969 - Ivan Mauger 1970 - Ivan Mauger 1972 - Ivan Mauger 1981 - Bruce Penhall 1986 - Hans Nielsen 1987 - Hans Nielsen 1989 - Hans Nielsen 1993 - Sam Ermolenko 1996 - Billy Hamill 1998 - Tony Rickardsson 2002 - Tony Rickardsson 2004 - Jason Crump 2006 - Jason Crump All the best Rob