BigFatDave

Awwww, that'll put an end to all the efforts of the amateur historians' brigade - that means we'll hear no more red herrings - not metaphors, Nigel, (it HAD to be a 'Nigel') - about the Duke of Denbigh and Evolutionists v Creationists, etc, and the discussion can get back to where it started, about what Johnnie Hoskins actually, and provably, DID. He organised a rough-and-ready bunch of rural rogues and roustabouts and started promoting professional motorcycle racing meetings on a regular basis; the result of which is today what we know as SPEEDWAY. As I said in my first post, something which so many seem to have conveniently ignored in order to unload their vitriol and put their own slanted, jaundiced, condescending viewpoint across; Johnnie Hoskins is the Godfather of SPEEDWAY.

Couldnt agree more, Iris! Just to confirm what the topic is, I posted a quotation from Ian Hoskins spruiking his article in the upcoming issue of Classic Speedway, and added my own kick-off line for the topic - see below: ,... so there we have it, a message to everyone who's been to Maitland and seen the plaque; any other comments are deliberately misleading and should be seen as such. In particular, suggestions by some on here that some of the actual participants in the meeting are senile are disgraceful, and not worthy of reply.

Now you know how we feel watching GPs in Europe, Sue!

It's impossible to debate with him, Jack; he's got all the fervour of a religious zealot, and anyone who has the temerity to disagree with him is either senile or misguided - just ask him. When caught out, as he has been repeatedly on this thread, he descends to abuse and introducing red herrings to obfuscate the argument. I'm done with him, but at least we may have sold a few more copies of the mag, so it's not all bad .

Flying Moa Airlines?

In response to your personal attack on oldone, I wrote: You replied: What's this, Scotch Mist? By implying - erroneously - that I attacked people from the first post in the thread, then continually denying the fact you're doing your side of the argument no favours at all. If you call having a discussion continually inserting red herrings and asking inane questions then I question your ability to take part in any reasoned debate. You seem to be obsessed with denigrating Johnnie Hoskins, a man widely credited with being the first true Speedway Promoter, rather than acknowledging the fact.

So, in other words, you refuse to apologise for lying about what I wrote - do I have that right?

Of course I'm not happy - I've been falsely accused of attacking people from the start of the thread, and I don't think much of your apology either. So you admit that you lied about my postings in order to further your argument and deliberately introduced red herrings into the debate, have I got that right? What gives you the right to demand that I answer your questions, after the way you've acted towards me? Incidentally, I've seen the plaque, which was unveiled by former Australian Captain and Glasgow favourite Buck Ryan in 2003, at Maitland.

Norbold; all your in-depth research and obfuscation still doesn't amount to a hill of beans - I ask you for the final time, where in the first post on this thread do I attack anyone?

.....and with the title come the BIG Sponsorship Dollar$.

I see, so being unable to back up your sweeping accusational statement you resort to introducing red herrings. I'll give you one more chance: cast your mind back to the beginning of this thread and explain to me where I attacked anybody in the first post, please. If you are unable to back your statement up then not only do I suggest that the rest of your argument falls by the wayside, but also I reckon an apology is in order.

From the Gillman website: The annual Gillman Classic Speedway Championship meeting takes place this Saturday night, 29 October. The meeting is a family night of old time speedway action, which marks the transition between the Sunday morning winter practice meetings and the professional Saturday night summer season, and it also doubles as a tribute meeting to a speedway legend of the past. This year the meeting will honour the biggest name of them all, Ivan Mauger, OBE MBE. Mauger definitely needs no introduction in any speedway country in the world. After all, in 2000, he was chosen, after polls between 34 speedway magazines around the world, as the speedway “Man of the Millennium” — the top speedway rider of the 20th century. With a career stretching back to the 1950s, and still going strong as a promoter (when he runs his Golden Helmet or Long Track meetings), riding coach, and as an ambassador for the sport, Ivan won over 1000 international events in 26 countries, including 6 World Individual Speedway Championships, 3 World Individual Long Track Championships, 2 World Pairs Championships, and 4 World Team Championships. As well as being the guest of honour at Gillman, Mauger will be doing three demonstration rides, one on a current-day bike, and two on bikes formerly ridden by 1951-52 World Champion Jack Young. The souvenir programme on the night will detail Ivan’s early career when he lived in Adelaide, from 1959-63. The Classic Championship meeting will consist of 48 events to cater for six championship categories — the JAP/ESO powered Solo bikes with riders over 50 years of age; 2 valve Jawa Solos; 4 valve Solos; British/European Sidecars, Japanese Sidecars and Post Classic Sidecars — plus demonstration events by the Classic Three Quarter Midgets. Riders from SA, WA, Vic, ACT, NSW and Qld will take part. The star rider in the Solos should be Nigel Sadler, the defending champion in the four valve class. Sadler is a former British League rider who is still good enough to hold his own against our current-day riders. One of those current-day riders will be Sadler’s main opposition, with Robert Ksiezak making a return to racing after being sidelined since April last year following an alarming crash at Berwick, in England, which resulted in a serious knee injury. 17-year-old Luke Mitchell is another current-day rider who might figure prominently, while Merv Janke (Qld), Kevin Webb (WA ) and Jeff Long should be the best of the “old blokes”. Janke, who started riding in Townsville as a teenager in the 1970s, and became one of North Queensland’s best ever riders, was very impressive in his Gillman Classic debut last season, while Webb is a popular visitor each year and always impresses. This year both Janke and Webb are contesting all three Solo classes so will be facing 12 rides if they reach all three finals! On last year’s showing Janke, who turns 55 on 7 November, should be too strong for his rivals in the JAP/ESO class for riders over 50, with Webb, fellow Sandgroper Barry Kennington, the ACT’s Ken Carratt, and Queenslander Keith Pilcher the main opposition. After hearing so much about last year’s event from Janke, Pilcher is making his Gillman debut, riding one of Jeff Fisher’s bikes. Fisher is the current class champion but has decided to sit out this year’s meeting because of health reasons. Janke, fellow North Queenslander Roy Stout, Webb and Long should be the main contenders in the 2 valve Solo class. In the Sidecars, spectators will once again get their Vincent “fix” with Victorians Clint Curran/Garry O’Neill making the trip over to renew their rivalry with Jim Irwin/Rick Schonfeldt on the 750 Triumph. Irwin came through from last place at the start to win the final last year ahead of Curran, with Moz Pridham/Graham Williams on the BSA/Jap third and Mildura’s Dale Milner/Nick O’Brien on the Harley twin fourth. Pridham/Williams won the Japanese Sidecar class but they face an increased challenge this year with former winner George Atherton returning to the field. Atherton won for three year’s running from 2006-08, before retiring in the 09 season final after going through the heats undefeated, but has not ridden in the last two events. Former North Arm Speedway rider Nipper Crabb makes his first appearance in the Classic meeting in this class. Three other former North Arm riders, Jim Irwin, Peter Menz and Lee Banks spearhead the Post Classic Sidecar class along with Victorians Ricky Curran/Chris Walker. Curran was unbeaten in the heats last season before finishing third in the final behind David Adams and Menz. As well as the two and three wheel classes the Three Quarter Midgets will have three demonstration runs. With the clay track surfaces dominating most speedway tracks these days, Gillman is one of the few tracks where the surface is smooth enough for the TQ drivers to have a safe and enjoyable time driving their classic cars. Racing starts at 7.30 pm, but gates open at 4 pm and the public will be able to get into the pits for a close look at the bikes until 6.30 pm. Ivan Mauger will also be Gillman’s guest at a BBQ on the Friday night (28 October, 7pm) which is open to the public, and they will be able to buy a personally autographed copy of Ivan’s autobiography, “The Will To Win”

Great post Sidney. Since he burst onto the scene he's revitalised interest in the sport, first Downunder and now Europe, and folks like me travel the world to watch him race. I for one would love to see him in EnZed next March. Why not let him make his own mind up when he feels ready, rather than being pushed into it too soon? Riders like Darcy put bums on seats; hopefully there's a few more in the wings.

Why not make a fortnight of it and call in at Gillman for the final round of the Sidecar Grand Slam? It'd be great to say G'day, and if you're interested I've got an exclusive property for sale to an astute buyer.

Your revisionist, almost Thommo-like attempts to rewrite History and distort the truth know no bounds, Norbold! I realise you're not as young as you used to be, and maybe, as you've pointed out so often during the course of the debate, time plays tricks with the memory of certain individuals, particularly those who reside in a Home for the Befuddled in Clacton-sur-la-Mer, but cast your mind back to the beginning of this thread and explain to me where I attacked anybody in the first post, please.

A sure sign that someone's losing an argument on here is when they attack the Poster, not the Post, Norbold.

This week (20/10/11) Thursday Thunder has an interview with Ivan Mauger plus an update on all Aussie goings-on - http://www.thursdaythunder.com.au/ - plus if you haven't seen it yet catch up with last week's interview with Leigh Adams.

Mick I've been driving them for years. since before you needed a separate licence, but this is the first time I've had a chance to play with a big Manitou telescopic handler - fun & games!

It DID rain yesterday, Jack! It's olddon, not old dog, Norbold - dunno how he is at picking up new tricks, but I'm back in the regular workforce as of today, learning how to drive BIG Forklifts and learning new skills all the time. Don't say you & your mates have been slagging us off behind our backs - or should that be Tracks?

So anyhow, are you coming Downunder for this one Humphrey - historic occasion, new world order and all that?

Sounds like a Micky Mouse set-up to me! You have to visit Zielona Gora at least once in your life - it's Magic!

Thanks for that James - sorry to hear she's been crook - Get Well Real Soon Clare!

No-one is denying that most if not all of these riders had raced before, so why do you keep banging on about it? What we are saying is that this meeting, on 15 December 1923 at Maitland, was the first one under the banner of SPEEDWAY. Just because either you or one of your mates is a tad forgetful or maybe even economical with the truth doesn't give you the right to tar others with the same brush, let alone try to discredit their written evidence. I expected better of you, Norbold.

I've never disputed that Dirt Track, Long Track and Board Track racing took place in the US and Oz before the first SPEEDWAY meeting on 15 December 1923 at Maitland, Norbold.

I'll see you there! I wonder if the lovely Clare (be still my beating heart) will be leading your tour?