Sir Sidney

Plenty to do in Stratford and Hackney Wick. It would be interesting to know just how far out the extended roof comes now. That said, I can't see that BSI would take a risk on putting a temporary track in without full cover in the British climate.

I once lined up with world champions Ronnie Moore, Barry Briggs and Ove Fundin - at the bar at a VSRA (as it was then) dinner. Where did you do it Robert72?

Wasn't it Tony Briggs,promoting the Wembley indoor meetings?

My simple answer to the original question is 'yes'. If the BSPA wanted to make it conditional that to be selected for the national you had to ride in the British leagues they should simply set that out before the season starts (the RFU do a similar thing saying that if you don't play in England you will not be selected to play rugby for England, other than in exceptional circumstances) but the BSPA hasn't done so,so we must assume they are happy to do so.

Or perhaps that one is a Grand Prix round (as a part of the world individual championship) and one is the World cup (the most prestigious team competition). I'd venture that any rider with world class aspirations would ride in those regardless of who was the sponsor. For what it's worth: I was at Cardiff and didn't hear the comment live. I have subsequently seen the interview. I don't think Tai was wise to swear, and I would expect that BSI / FIM might well have given him a warning. Am I offended - not really - but I'd prefer he didn't do it again. I was at Cardiff with family including early teen relations. Given the music they listen to I suspect they wouldn't have even noticed - which perhaps says something about the society we live in. Should the BSPA have Tai as team captain? Again, I would expect that they might tell him the standards they expect. I would be more worried that the captain can lead by example on track and motivate and inspire his team. I have no idea how his team mates feel about him, but I would bet that they would rather have him in the team than not.

Good luck to all at Belle Vue. I hope to night is a tremendous success and the NSS becomes a great asset. British Speedway needs great venues

Would it be possible for a truce to be called on these exchanges that have nothing to do with the reunion? Jon Stevens has put a lot of effort into this event which is also to remember Tommy Jansson. It would be great if the thread just concentrated on publicising the reunion or sharing memories of The Dons or Tommy. As with so many of us Wimbledon was such a great part of my growing up and I would be there like a shot if a miracle happened and it started a again.

Blimey. I've got a boomerang in my house as well.Does that make me an Aussie or just show that I like Australia?

Hope I'm not breaking any forum rules by copying the same quote twice. However, having just looked at your profile I note you are a Reading fan. Given how Reading lost its stadium to a developer who clearly didn't want speedway and who then didn't provide the new stadium promised (as I understand it) I would have thought you might have been more sympathetic to the plight of we Wimbledon supporters. In the face of an owner / developer who doesn't want the sport both clubs have sufferred a similar demise. Is there an active campaign, that has a chance of sucess, to resurrect Reading? I have no intention with falling out with supporters of other teams, but it does illustrate the difficulty of bringing back sides who have lost their venue. Too many of us on here have lost our teams.

I hope that doesn't include me! If it does then I apologize if I have misrepresented anything. I wonder if you could persuade Ian to post a summary of what actually happened.

This seems a bit contradictory to me. You say that 'Wimbledon speedway could never have been saved in the current climate' but that there has been 'plenty of time for supporters to get a campaign going'. When we closed the promoters looked at a number of other venues but were not able to agree a deal or find one that would be viable. Nick Taylor set up a nomad team to ride a number of fixtures but without the prospect of a permanent venue that came to an end. My view is that regular league speedway in London is dead. I cannot see that new,viable venues can be found given the density of housing and the demand for more. I don't see that any supporter campaign will overcome that.

Can you elaborate on why 'Spedeworth accepted that, regardless of the planning issues, their time at Wimbledon was coming to an end'? Genuine question. It would be sad if by Spedeworth planning to run more meetings at Foxhall speedway was put at risk.

Some interesting points. I didn't know about your involvement in Ipswich, but well done. I enjoy my occassional visits to Foxhall. A few differences between Ipswich and Wimbledon though i would say. Presumably at Ipswich you were able to work with a landlord who was prepared to negotiate, who wanted to retain the stadium for oval based motor sport and who wasn't in a position to develop the site for housing (I don't know, but I would imagine the Foxhall Heath would have some protection in place against development). You say that the apathy at Wimbledon was there from 1991. Perhaps Wimbledon would have been better remaining in the National League as it was then, rather that moving back up to the British League and losing money. I remember John Davis making a plea to the GRA to accept less rent, but in the end they chose to let speedway close and get no rent. Perhaps a portent for the future did we but know it You do acknowledge that 'there were individuals who showed some gumption in wanting to preserve the Dons' which resulted in us returning to our spiritual home for the Conference / National League years in the 2000s. I'm very grateful that there were people who had the gumption to get the Dons back. I'm sure they will confirm that they were preparing to move back up to the Premier League, as the support justified it, but the landlords made it clear that they were not interested. The promoters did engage with the local MP and Council, but to no avail. They investigated many other potential sites but to no avail. Whilst there may well be several hundred pitches on which to play ninth tier football to gain a foothold I would guess there was only one viable site in London or the surrounding area at which a Wimbledon team could stage speedway at any level - and the owners of that site, as was their right, didn't want it. Given that the owners have held out for and now received planning permission for 600 properties I would imagine they are quite satisfied. I haven't seen the plans but if we assume conservatively that they might be worth £250,000 each (probably more) it is no suprise that developing the site was far more attractive than letting an ageing stadium at a comparitively low rent to a tenant / tenants that it didn't want . I'm sure as an IFA you would recommend your clients to maximise their assets and, similarly, would not recommend clients paying a rent that was greater than was sensible or affordable. My gripe is not with AFC Wimbledon. I wish the site plan was to develop to cater for all sports - but that wouldn't stack up financially as the housing would have had to go - not something that I would think Galliard Homes would find attactive. It is better to see the site used for sport than not. In absolute terms you are right in that too few people cared that Wimbledon speedway survived - simply because speedway as a whole has too few supporters - but please don't denigrate those that do care by implying that Wimbledon fans were apathetic when others were not. That stance does you no credit.

My objection to Mr Snackette's position is not that planning permission has been given to AFC and Galliard (that was probably inevitable ), but his assertion that the speedway supporters could have prevented it if they had bothered to try. I don't wish any ill on AFC, but cannot agree with Mr Snackette's view on alleged fan apathy.

We will have to disagree on that. For speedway to have had a chance it would have needed both someone with sufficient money to invest and an owner willing to sell - neither of which were in place. I think you do the speedway supporters an injustice.

Not sure if Mr Snackette is being deliberately inflammatory in suggesting that as Wimbledon speedway supporters we could have in effect saved speedway at Plough Lane. Anyone wanting to understand the real financial background should read the previous excellent posts by Arthur Cross. The stadium owners made it abundantly clear that they didn't want speedway. It's no surprise that Galliard Homes wanted to develop the site to maximise housing whilst meeting the requirement to maintain sporting use. Motor sport of any kind is not compatible with that. I would be interested to see the financial plan. I hope AFC has done it's homework. Sport is littered with sucessful business people who loose the plot when it comes to sport.

Council planning meeting today. Details on Merton council website.

The comparison to rugby union is not entirely correct. One of the reasons for the playoffs in rugby is to compensate teams who lose players to international matches. For example, when the Six Nations is on league matches still continue, meaning sides with most international players are disadvantaged (no guest system in rugby thank goodness). That allows a team that does not finish top of the league, but who might have done other than for the fact that they had had to play a number of games understrength, still to have a chance of being champions. There are no doubt other reasons, but that is a difference to speedway.

It's a shame you found it difficult to find out how the system worked or that the club didn't provide the info - I'm sure that if you had asked someone around you they would have been only too happy to explain - usually a very friendly lot, just like speedway. Obviously I can't say what was on the website when you looked but it's fairly clear and well explained now http://www.premiershiprugby.com/matchcentre/tables/aviva_premiership_table.php#gCZ0hcjfKJStIlbC.97 I think rugby union has got plenty of more difficult things to explain to casual observers that the match points issue, but that's not for a speedway forum. Where there are parallels though are in what the majority of casual observers need to know or are interested in and whether that is different to regular and committed supporters. As someone who lost his speedway club a number of years ago I probably count as a casual observer at speedway now. I probably go to no more than 5 meetings a year now rather than more than 50 a year in the past and don't follow any particular team. As such I've very little interest in the match points outcome, only worrying about the quality of the racing. Before my club closed I had an involvement in encouraging new supporters via promotions to schools and I can say that people were encouraged to return based on whether they found the racing exciting rather than the result. It was only once they were hooked and had an alliegance that they worried about that. What's that got to do with this thread? We'll I'd say speedway often creates more problems than it solves by tinkering with rules, simplicity and clarity often work best and until the speedway authorities manage to crack how to attract a whole new generation of supporters they can ill afford to confuse or allienate those that they have.

Not entirely true. If you look at the rugby Premiership table http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/english-premiership/table it bears a very close similarity to the relationship between matches won, drawn or lost - the bonus points only split the teams who have won the same amount of matches.

Wimbledon without a doubt - although the GRA have allowed it to fall into increasing disrepair over recent years.

I don't think anyone has actually given up, but we do have to look at the reality. Maybe just worth recapping on some of the things that have happened: Once Mr Taggarts plans were initially known Ian Perkin made contact with Mr Taggart's team to investigate if speedway could form part of the plans. As I understand it, at the time, Mr Taggart was open to the idea and advised Ian that, if Mr Taggart's plans were accepted, Ian should submit a proposal / plan to him. We were all asked to e-mail the Mayor of London and the Leader of Merton Council to set out our support - and to copy both Ian and Diane McLean (part of Mr Taggart's team) so that they could also judge interest. At that early stage I don't recall Mr Taggart's plan including housing, or so much housing, and that the original drawings seemed to show an oval race track with scope for a figure of 8 - indicating that speedway / stock cars might feature. I e-mailed as requested and got a reply from Diane which didn't discount speedway's involvement should Mr Taggart be sucessful. However, as Arthur Cross in particular has so eloquently set out, the financial reality of the situation may explain why Mr Taggart is emphasising why housing provision will play a significant part in his plans. The recent news paper piece in which Mr Taggart has mentioned that local residents are not in favour of retaining stock cars might also explain why the latest drawings now omit the race track. As speedway knows to it's cost housing and motor sport do not make popular neighbours. I'm not sure that I see that article as positive for speedway (other than if stock cars do not exist then speedway is not competing with it). The 'Show of Passion' organised does not seek to include anyone other than the greyhound community, and to me that would seem to indicate a lessening of interest for including any other sport. I like others have posted on the 'We want Wimbledon Facebook' site, but have not had any response. And so, in summary, I would say: The previous speedway management has had discussions with Mr Taggart There is an active Wimbledon Speedway group on Facebook which does indicate interest No one from the speedway community has, or is likely to, come forward with an option which puts speedway first - the economics as Arthur Cross has set out simply do not make this feasible If AFC Wimbledon get planning permission there is no possibility for speedway If Mr Taggart gets planning permission (and the current owners wish to sell to him) there is a slim chance, but no more than that.

There has been contact between the former PLC management (see post 93) and Mr Taggart's team, who had indicated that, if their bid was sucessful, they were prepared to discuss the reintroduction of speedway.

I watched Wimbledon from 1969 through to the close - meaning that I saw the team compete at all levels from British League, New National League and Conference / National League - and watched world champions right down to youngsters starting out. When the Dons dropped out of the top league I thought I would miss the top riders - but as others have rightly already pointed out, what was key was whether the racing was competitive in the league that the Dons were in at the time. If the outcome this winter is a reigning in of costs, leading to some of the top riders not racing here we will cope, and British speedway may well flourish.

Based on the very first post on this subject as below Ian Perkin is in contact with Paschal Taggart's representatives, so someone is representing speedway's interest. I doubt any one has both the interest and the financial resources to put forward an alternative speedway focussed proposal and so our best bet is probably that the greyhound proposals are the preferred option. As so often with speedway, we are in the hands of others 'Wimbledon Club Chairman when the track closed in 2005, Ian Perkin has had communications with Paschal's legal counsel and if the bid is successful she has indicated that Paschal would be interested in discussing with the previous promotion whether there might be a suitable opportunity for allowing Speedway racing to take place in the new stadium.'