Peterborough Panthers 2023

[Crump99]

1 hour ago, mikebv said:

There are truly dozens of ways to "get the message out there" to "ver kidz" but it appears not many want to do it...

For example. My lads old grassroots football team had teams from U8 to U16 and several teama at many of  the age groups...

Just in Stockport where I live alone there must have been well over 2000 kids playing football each Saturday and Sunday morning, for several hundred teams..

A perfect time for clubs to appear with riders and bikes on parks and set themselves up on those parks that can have up to 10 matches going on at any given time, handing out car stickers, free tickets etc..

Loads of kids and loads of parents on hand, and the same happens every afternoon as well as morning...

Each season the local kids leagues also run a trophy giving day where each age Group gets trophies. 

The younger ones all get one (there are no losers here), and the winners and runners up get trophies in the older leagues.. 

It would cost clubs very little to sponsor any of their local sporting leagues and their trophy giving day,, and get the league called after them..

Much, much less than they would be paying their heat leaders for just one match I would say..

In this modern era, if you have a decent smart phone, you have the chance to advertise yourself to millions...

Lots of ways of getting others to hear about you if you had the inclination.. 

And it needn't cost the earth.

 

And the cord snaps back! I'm not sponsored by Bratters by the way but what goes around comes around as our captain once said - and from a over a decade ago when it took real effort without electronic assistance :

Bratters' final Panthers blog on "Lovespeedway24"

During my time at Peterborough, I have done everything humanly possible to attract newcomers to our sport and all I might add on little or no budget. I have presented to over 2500 kids in various schools road show initiatives, I have invited and hosted whole organisations along for free and whole streets along for free. I have put up banners and posters, I have given away 1000’s of (sponsored) car stickers and more kids goodie bags than you can shake a stick at. I have offered free admission to members of the thriving local Polish club (one person came – once), 2 for 1 offers, Kids for a quid and Kids for free. We have on occasions been overrun by hundreds of Scout groups and I have undertaken umpteen radio interviews and quite a few local TV vox pops. I have put leaflets in newspapers, I have put leaflets through letterboxes, I have handed leaflets out in shopping malls and I have put 1000’s of leaflets on cars (with apologies to the owner of the Blue Vauxhall Astra in the Peterborough Railway Station Car Park in September 2007, honestly, it really did come off in my hand, so it must have already been broken). You name it and I’ve pretty much done it and all the time, our attendances have remained constant. Constantly poor.

It should be noted though that Panthers crowds now usually look fairly decent considering and have held up well, although not sure that will last in 2023 without a no1?

 

[mikebv]

9 hours ago, Crump99 said:

And the cord snaps back! I'm not sponsored by Bratters by the way but what goes around comes around as our captain once said - and from a over a decade ago when it took real effort without electronic assistance :

Bratters' final Panthers blog on "Lovespeedway24"

During my time at Peterborough, I have done everything humanly possible to attract newcomers to our sport and all I might add on little or no budget. I have presented to over 2500 kids in various schools road show initiatives, I have invited and hosted whole organisations along for free and whole streets along for free. I have put up banners and posters, I have given away 1000’s of (sponsored) car stickers and more kids goodie bags than you can shake a stick at. I have offered free admission to members of the thriving local Polish club (one person came – once), 2 for 1 offers, Kids for a quid and Kids for free. We have on occasions been overrun by hundreds of Scout groups and I have undertaken umpteen radio interviews and quite a few local TV vox pops. I have put leaflets in newspapers, I have put leaflets through letterboxes, I have handed leaflets out in shopping malls and I have put 1000’s of leaflets on cars (with apologies to the owner of the Blue Vauxhall Astra in the Peterborough Railway Station Car Park in September 2007, honestly, it really did come off in my hand, so it must have already been broken). You name it and I’ve pretty much done it and all the time, our attendances have remained constant. Constantly poor.

It should be noted though that Panthers crowds now usually look fairly decent considering and have held up well, although not sure that will last in 2023 without a no1?

 

Sounds like a lot of promotion was done, meaning, I presume,  that the VFM of the actual "night out" didn't meet the expectations of those who did attend...?

However, here is one example of many where tracks do (lots of) positive things in SILO rather than putting together a collective budget, and marketing themsleves nationally using professionals. .

Having been in marketing "build it and they will come" is as weak a plan as asking your fanbase to "bring a friend", or using "it's a sport you can bring your family to" as a strap line..

One off gestures simply don't work as it takes around 4 weeks to change someone's habits...

When I have done "mega offers" at store openings and handed out vouchers for them,  the uptake is around just 11%. We calculate this through how many redemptions we have v how many we distribute..

Now, as we give out 50,000 or so of those vouchers, that 11% is 5500 customers, who we then give out more vouchers to over the first four weeks of the stores life. As we know that by the fifth week the vast majority will now have changed habits and will stay with us...

The actual getting them there (often for free), is actually the "easy bit", the difficult bit is how you then engage them to come in over the next four weeks...

And expecting a family to suddenly pay out circa £60 to £70 for a night out one week after trying something new for free is a pipe dream I would suggest..

Enticing them with more reduced cost visits over the next few weeks/months could work though as the kids in particular you would hope would get engaged...

With so many people having an electronic footprint, target marketing has never been so easy, therefore those who attend but then stop, can be re targeted to see if they will visit again. ..

Given we are dealing with such low numbers, many tracks only need 300 or so more punters per night to do "ok", as that would add 5000 or so to the season and around £100k of revenue..

It doesn't have to be the same 300 though, as target marketing could get some to attend only once or twice, but it is once or twice more than currently,  and even at a reduced price, it is money the tracks don't currently get...

If each track had a database of 3000 or so who "follow" the club then these are the people that tracks need to target as a priority, as they already are engaged...

The 1200 to 1500 die hards are there every week, it's the ones who watch results from social media and their armchairs that they need in the stadiums. .

With those who maybe know the sport, or have no clue of it, being the ones you nationally advertise to, and then  "go out and seek and find", using a marketing budget to get them coming to the sport, hopefully very often, but even irregularly would be a very positive oucome..

[cowboy cookie returns?]

I don’t get all the hate for Tomlin on here.

the guy is a businessman if he could see a long term future for the club he would have brought it doing the winter. it looks like issues came up during the winter around a new site. That could be the cost, planning permission or a combination of both. Tomlin was never going to buy a club that had no future beyond October that isn’t good business sense.

Admittedly he could have kept the fans updated & come clean on the issues around his purchase falling though.

if I were a Peterborough fan I’d enjoy this season & the speedway while you can.

I generally wish all of you that are fighting to keep to club going all the best. 

[coldace]

10 hours ago, BassoRacingFan said:

So what's happening for Monday?

We need a world class guest.

You'll probably get Danny King, not sure he qualifies.

[TTT]

16 hours ago, Flappy said:

Without doubt providing we're competitive. I'm not prepared to consistently be the whipping boys with zero ambition 

Agree, The club is worth fighting for if it's under a Tomalin ownership.

Buster is just taking the mickey out of everyone as far as I'm concerned and he's not shown any fight for the club in regards to the team and the results for the last 12 months, Didn't bother making a team change last season when we we're getting slapped up left, right and centre and he hasn't bothered to sign a Nicki replacement this year even though he's had the opportunity to do so and instead he's opted to use KL engine room riders as the Peterborough No.1 as a way to save money.

Literally no point in anyone fighting a big uphill task if the end result see's Buster Chapman remain as the owner with a team that loses meetings at Home after 4 Heats of Speedway.

We need to hear from Michael Tomalin to get a clear picture as to what his intentions are going forward.

16 minutes ago, cowboy cookie returns? said:

I don’t get all the hate for Tomlin on here.

the guy is a businessman if he could see a long term future for the club he would have brought it doing the winter. it looks like issues came up during the winter around a new site. That could be the cost, planning permission or a combination of both. Tomlin was never going to buy a club that had no future beyond October that isn’t good business sense.

Admittedly he could have kept the fans updated & come clean on the issues around his purchase falling though.

if I were a Peterborough fan I’d enjoy this season & the speedway while you can.

I generally wish all of you that are fighting to keep to club going all the best. 

It's only KL fans hating on MT out of loyalty for Buster.

Buster has been a big part of KL for years so it's understandable that KL fans will take his side.

I agree no businessman would by a business that doesn't have a guaranteed future.

[Catalan]

1 hour ago, TTT said:

Agree, The club is worth fighting for if it's under a Tomalin ownership.

Buster is just taking the mickey out of everyone as far as I'm concerned and he's not shown any fight for the club in regards to the team and the results for the last 12 months, Didn't bother making a team change last season when we we're getting slapped up left, right and centre and he hasn't bothered to sign a Nicki replacement this year even though he's had the opportunity to do so and instead he's opted to use KL engine room riders as the Peterborough No.1 as a way to save money.

Literally no point in anyone fighting a big uphill task if the end result see's Buster Chapman remain as the owner with a team that loses meetings at Home after 4 Heats of Speedway.

We need to hear from Michael Tomalin to get a clear picture as to what his intentions are going forward.

It's only KL fans hating on MT out of loyalty for Buster.

Buster has been a big part of KL for years so it's understandable that KL fans will take his side.

I agree no businessman would by a business that doesn't have a guaranteed future.

I'm not a Kings Lynn fan or a fan of Chapman but surely if he is as bad as you all think he would count his losses and walk?

Think we need to listen to Mick Bratley and trust what he says I always found him a solid guy.

[TTT]

1 hour ago, weatherman said:

I'm not a Kings Lynn fan or a fan of Chapman but surely if he is as bad as you all think he would count his losses and walk?

Think we need to listen to Mick Bratley and trust what he says I always found him a solid guy.

I think Buster gave up last year tbh, He was making changes at KL by signing Klindt and Jakobsen but at Peterborough we got lumbered with guests and R/R throughout the entire season whilst watching us take a battering every week.

From a fan perspective I just can't imagine any other Speedway owner sitting back watching his club lose at Home on a regular basis and not do anything about it, Only someone who doesn't care anymore would sit back and do nothing imo.

As for Mick he's a solid guy for sure and he's got the best interests of the club at heart.

[Bald Bloke]

35 minutes ago, TTT said:

I think Buster gave up last year tbh, He was making changes at KL by signing Klindt and Jakobsen but at Peterborough we got lumbered with guests and R/R throughout the entire season whilst watching us take a battering every week.

From a fan perspective I just can't imagine any other Speedway owner sitting back watching his club lose at Home on a regular basis and not do anything about it, Only someone who doesn't care anymore would sit back and do nothing imo.

As for Mick he's a solid guy for sure and he's got the best interests of the club at heart.

What this bloke who said this Thursday?.

 

“I think all criticism of Buster is unfair, he’s doing his best for sure in my opinion, he IS a good guy and does want the club to survive. It’s not easy running a Speedway club and very often, actually always, it’s about mitigating losses rather than making a profit”

Mick said this the above on here the other day.  The same bloke that  you said of him …You know the solid guy, who has the best interests of the club at heart .

 

 

 

 

Edited April 22, 2023 by Bald Bloke

[Daniel Smith]

2 hours ago, TTT said:

It's only KL fans hating on MT out of loyalty for Buster.

Buster has been a big part of KL for years so it's understandable that KL fans will take his side.

I agree no businessman would by a business that doesn't have a guaranteed future.

I'm a King's Lynn fan who stopped going because of Buster. You don't have to go around blinkered because you don't like something. We have to be objective & Buster isn't the problem. 

Had Tomlin kept his mouth shut I'm pretty sure most Peterborough fans would have been ok with Pedersen & Iversen as top 2 + Basso & fillers in between. 

The issue was, because of Tomlin's big mouth & the rumours of Holder, Tungate, Lindgren you'd all got your knickers in a twist about Chapman & since have became the blinkered ones. 

[Bald Bloke]

1 minute ago, Daniel Smith said:

I'm a King's Lynn fan who stopped going because of Buster. You don't have to go around blinkered because you don't like something. We have to be objective & Buster isn't the problem. 

Had Tomlin kept his mouth shut I'm pretty sure most Peterborough fans would have been ok with Pedersen & Iversen as top 2 + Basso & fillers in between. 

The issue was, because of Tomlin's big mouth & the rumours of Holder, Tungate, Lindgren you'd all got your knickers in a twist about Chapman & since have became the blinkered ones. 

Spot on.I’ been saying this for weeks…

[BluPanther]

3 minutes ago, Daniel Smith said:

I'm a King's Lynn fan who stopped going because of Buster. You don't have to go around blinkered because you don't like something. We have to be objective & Buster isn't the problem. 

Had Tomlin kept his mouth shut I'm pretty sure most Peterborough fans would have been ok with Pedersen & Iversen as top 2 + Basso & fillers in between. 

The issue was, because of Tomlin's big mouth & the rumours of Holder, Tungate, Lindgren you'd all got your knickers in a twist about Chapman & since have became the blinkered ones. 

Pedersen & Iversen were never the answer, and i said as much many weeks ago. Buster got lucky in 2021, largely due to Oystercards inflated average when he got injured, but apart from that it's been wooden spoons every year in the top league. People blaming MT for the current situation are just deflecting Chapmans historical inability to build a competitive team. Even worse, he's ruined the track with his cheap and nasty clay. He won't be getting another penny of my hard earned...

[Daniel Smith]

3 hours ago, cowboy cookie returns? said:

I don’t get all the hate for Tomlin on here.

the guy is a businessman if he could see a long term future for the club he would have brought it doing the winter. it looks like issues came up during the winter around a new site. That could be the cost, planning permission or a combination of both. Tomlin was never going to buy a club that had no future beyond October that isn’t good business sense.

Admittedly he could have kept the fans updated & come clean on the issues around his purchase falling though.

if I were a Peterborough fan I’d enjoy this season & the speedway while you can.

I generally wish all of you that are fighting to keep to club going all the best. 

It's not hate, that's a strong word to use against someone you don't know. It's just the fact that he'd whipped up the excitement amongst Peterborough fans about building "a title challenging team guaranteed". The romoured rider's didn't help the situation, to then not back it all up. Then to see all the blame fall back on the guy who actually owns the club is just laughable.

At the end of the day, as a sponsor, they should keep their mouth shut until a team is signed sealed & delivered. 

[Bald Bloke]

1 minute ago, BluPanther said:

Pedersen & Iversen were never the answer, and i said as much many weeks ago. Buster got lucky in 2021, largely due to Oystercards inflated average when he got injured, but apart from that it's been wooden spoons every year in the top league. People blaming MT for the current situation are just deflecting Chapmans historical inability to build a competitive team. Even worse, he's ruined the track with his cheap and nasty clay. He won't be getting another penny of my hard earned...

What a load of tosh imho. But what do I know.. 

[TTT]

1 minute ago, Bald Bloke said:

What this bloke who said this Thursday?.

 

“I think all criticism of Buster is unfair, he’s doing his best for sure in my opinion, he IS a good guy and does want the club to survive. It’s not easy running a Speedway club and very often, actually always, it’s about mitigating losses rather than making a profit”

I'm blaming Buster for the results and team building.

Take out the Chris Holder winter drama, For arguments sake let's just say fair enough he doesn't want to sign him because he doesn't like him.....But what's the excuse for not signing Matej Zagar last week when we're desperate?

2023 is just a case deja vu with an owner who simply doesn't want to sign a replacement because he's given up even though we should have £91,000 minimum to spend on a replacement because that's what the club would've paid out for Nicki P over the season if the 3.5k a night quote is correct.

It's easy to point the finger at Tomalin because he's the newbie by saying he's a big mouth and it's down to him for making promises he can't keep, But that argument is floored imo because the on track downfall watching our 5/6 man teams consisting of R/R and guests lose every meeting started last year before Tomalin even took on the co promoter role.

The only thing that Tomalin can be blamed for at this moment time is the rebranding of the club purely because it makes no sense to make that change if the club has no long term future.

[screm]

You would've thought that Peterborough would've had a rider in by now.

[Bald Bloke]

2 minutes ago, Daniel Smith said:

It's not hate, that's a strong word to use against someone you don't know. It's just the fact that he'd whipped up the excitement amongst Peterborough fans about building "a title challenging team guaranteed". The romoured rider's didn't help the situation, to then not back it all up. Then to see all the blame fall back on the guy who actually owns the club is just laughable.

At the end of the day, as a sponsor, they should keep their mouth shut until a team is signed sealed & delivered. 

Another spot on post…. 

[Bald Bloke]

2 minutes ago, TTT said:

I'm blaming Buster for the results and team building.

Take out the Chris Holder winter drama, For arguments sake let's just say fair enough he doesn't want to sign him because he doesn't like him.....But what's the excuse for not signing Matej Zagar last week when we're desperate?

2023 is just a case deja vu with an owner who simply doesn't want to sign a replacement because he's given up even though we should have £91,000 minimum to spend on a replacement because that's what the club would've paid out for Nicki P over the season if the 3.5k a night quote is correct.

It's easy to point the finger at Tomalin because he's the newbie by saying he's a big mouth and it's down to him for making promises he can't keep, But that argument is floored imo because the on track downfall watching our 5/6 man teams consisting of R/R and guests lose every meeting started last year before Tomalin even took on the co promoter role.

The only thing that Tomalin can be blamed for at this moment time is the rebranding of the club purely because it makes no sense to make that change if the club has no long term future.

We will have to agree to disagree on the Buster and MT thing. If the Panthers fans keep blowing smoke up MT’s arse long enough, he might actually deliver..That’s your only hope, so I get it why Buster is getting all the crap..

[Daniel Smith]

3 minutes ago, BluPanther said:

Pedersen & Iversen were never the answer, and i said as much many weeks ago. Buster got lucky in 2021, largely due to Oystercards inflated average when he got injured, but apart from that it's been wooden spoons every year in the top league. People blaming MT for the current situation are just deflecting Chapmans historical inability to build a competitive team. Even worse, he's ruined the track with his cheap and nasty clay. He won't be getting another penny of my hard earned...

Every Peterborough fan already knew who Buster was when he took over. You'd seen the bargain teams put together at King's Lynn, why anyone would expect different at Peterborough is unbelievable & stupid. He'd saved you from early closure & won a title on a shoestring. 

MT has to take blame for making promises he couldn't deliver on. 

Buster works to a very strict budget & it's always been that way. Most outsider's would see what he's done in his short tenure as an excellent job. 

Us at King's Lynn have never seen a top flight title, Buster delivered one almost immediately, we should be the immensely bitter ones to be fair. 

[mikebv]

5 minutes ago, screm said:

You would've thought that Peterborough would've had a rider in by now.

Another of those things that does the sport so few favours if it is ever to be taken seriously...

Lost a good rider? No problem. Borrow any of ours whenever you need them..

With the Polish rule changes, there must be a fair few who would ride over here now, on Nicki P's terms too I would think given he wouldnt have been cheap. (Even at 'mates' rates)..

RR only should be the option as that would mean the Promoters get a shift on in getting another rider in..

[Octoberon]

Perhaps we should have Palm Toft guesting on Monday. I see he is currently 'in form' and does ride Belle Vue well.

Personally I hope he never turns another wheel for the Panthers after the farce and pee taking performance last Monday.