Simon Stead and Oliver Allen.... Stand down?

[eric i]

Their decision not to include riders in the GB squad because they didn't want to compete in lesser competitions has cost GB dearly IMO. We will never know what Charles Wright would have scored but any sane man would have put money on him scoring a point in the final. Such a poor decision would not have been made by the likes of Gary May, Stewart Dickson or Middleditch........time for a change.

[highside]

British riders premier league GSA Dan Bewley 7.49 Danny King 7.08 Chris Harris 6.83 Steve Worrall 6.75 Charles Wright 6.68 Tom Brennan 6.07 Adam Ellis 6.00 Richie Worrall 5.77 , that makes 4 riders with higher averages than 2 that were picked .I thought picking your strongest team is the best thing to do obviously I'm wrong .

[arnieg]

2 minutes ago, highside said:

British riders premier league GSA Dan Bewley 7.49 Danny King 7.08 Chris Harris 6.83 Steve Worrall 6.75 Charles Wright 6.68 Tom Brennan 6.07 Adam Ellis 6.00 Richie Worrall 5.77 , that makes 4 riders with higher averages than 2 that were picked .I thought picking your strongest team is the best thing to do obviously I'm wrong .

Steve Worrall 6.00 ...Adam Ellis 9.00 (above Masters and Douglas)

 

Those are the real averages, where it matters ... in Poland.

I had assumed the OP was satire, but I fear not.

[IainB]

11 minutes ago, highside said:

British riders premier league GSA Dan Bewley 7.49 Danny King 7.08 Chris Harris 6.83 Steve Worrall 6.75 Charles Wright 6.68 Tom Brennan 6.07 Adam Ellis 6.00 Richie Worrall 5.77 , that makes 4 riders with higher averages than 2 that were picked .I thought picking your strongest team is the best thing to do obviously I'm wrong .

Lawson?

[eric i]

15 minutes ago, arnieg said:

Steve Worrall 6.00 ...Adam Ellis 9.00 (above Masters and Douglas)

 

Those are the real averages, where it matters ... in Poland.

I had assumed the OP was satire, but I fear not.

According to a lot of the riders Wroclaw track is most similar to Belle Vue, Charles Wright has a higher average than Tom Brennen despite Brennen being at reserve. 

[Bagpuss]

Definitely not time for change.

Ellis and Brennan were picked because they ride regularly in Poland, others don't. Pretty straightforward really.

Our record in the SWC/SoN has been excellent since 2018.

[The Cheese]

I'm not sure how this stuff is funded so maybe it costs the riders money to ride in the European Pairs or whatever but I don't think it's unreasonable to give priority to those who've made themselves available for GB throughout the year. Ellis was the logical 4th rider anyway given his Polish form and SEC experience. 

Edited July 30, 2023 by The Cheese

[eric i]

13 minutes ago, Bagpuss said:

Definitely not time for change.

Ellis and Brennan were picked because they ride regularly in Poland, others don't. Pretty straightforward really.

Our record in the SWC/SoN has been excellent since 2018.

Thats is what is wrong, it should be the riders that are most likely to score the most points. Charles wright would have been more likely than Brennen to score points. I think it cost us.

[eric i]

32 minutes ago, The Cheese said:

I'm not sure how this stuff is funded so maybe it costs the riders money to ride in the European Pairs or whatever but I don't think it's unreasonable to give priority to those who've made themselves available for GB throughout the year. Ellis was the logical 4th rider anyway given his Polish form and SEC experience. 

Nobody has ever cared about the European Pairs, look at the role of honour and past line ups...... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Pairs_Speedway_Championship , I don't blame riders for turning down the opportunity to travel to the arse end of Finland for a mickey mouse competition.

[screm]

Lets be honest after Bewley and Lanbert and to a lesser extent Woffinden, there`s not much between any of the remaining riders.

[HenryW]

For me the selection of Ellis made sense as he is a regular in the Polish league and does better than any of the other Brits there.

Brennan over the likes of Wright maybe made less sense.

[IainB]

46 minutes ago, eric i said:

Nobody has ever cared about the European Pairs, look at the role of honour and past line ups...... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Pairs_Speedway_Championship , I don't blame riders for turning down the opportunity to travel to the arse end of Finland for a mickey mouse competition.

They maybe have to ride in these meetings because it's being run as a business, so to sell sponsorship packages to other businesses they'll have a programme of events that they're participating in to sell to sponsors. The sponsors, The Daily Star for example, probably don't even know or care that some of the competitions the team are riding in carry little prestige. That would be my take on it anyway

[a4poster]

From my point of view if Woffinden performed to the level that is expected of him we would be World Champions and Messrs Allen and Stead would be lauded as  tactical genius' as we are only talking about a two point swing.

[HenryW]

1 hour ago, iainb said:

They maybe have to ride in these meetings because it's being run as a business, so to sell sponsorship packages to other businesses they'll have a programme of events that they're participating in to sell to sponsors. The sponsors, The Daily Star for example, probably don't even know or care that some of the competitions the team are riding in carry little prestige. That would be my take on it anyway

And "Allied" wanted one of theirs in the SWC so it was down to a choice between Brennan or Harris for the managers? 

[GeneralMelchett]

5 hours ago, arnieg said:

Steve Worrall 6.00 ...Adam Ellis 9.00 (above Masters and Douglas)

 

Those are the real averages, where it matters ... in Poland.

I had assumed the OP was satire, but I fear not.

Its insanity to suggest they should step down!

Brennan at what 22 is the future of these events why would you not get him ready - I like Charles Wright he’s been a good pro over the years not convinced he’d have done any better!

 

no doubt had they gone with Wright and we hadn’t won then someone would have piped up with if you should have taken Brennan!! 

 

[Gavan]

1 hour ago, a4poster said:

From my point of view if Woffinden performed to the level that is expected of him we would be World Champions and Messrs Allen and Stead would be lauded as  tactical genius' as we are only talking about a two point swing.

What level are you expecting Tai to perform at???

His 2013 level or 2015 level?

We’re you expecting Chris Holder to do better as he was a past world champion or Nicki Pedersen??

Tai’s level now is about world number 10 or so …. About as good as Janowski or Dudek …. He isn’t as good as Madsen , Jack Holder, Doyle …. And will struggle to beat the likes of Thomsen and Michelsen and Fricke and certainly isn’t anywhere near Zmarzliks class 

Riders lose form as they get older …. Remember Nicki and Chris fighting for a world title now they can’t get in their country’s top 4

Tai is a 3 time world champion and people expecting him to be at that level are kidding themselves 

In that class of company I thought Tai would do well to get 9 

Peoples judgement of him is because he once was the worlds best and last night after 2 , in my opinion unexpected wins, we assume he should have scored more and I agree that one point form his last 3 wasn’t good 

However i also expected Bewley to get more than 9 yet he escapes anyone’s criticism as it’s easier to bash Tai….. though in Bewleys defence he did have to wait a long time between his second and third rides which wasn’t ideal 

[Ben91]

6 hours ago, eric i said:

Their decision not to include riders in the GB squad because they didn't want to compete in lesser competitions has cost GB dearly IMO. We will never know what Charles Wright would have scored but any sane man would have put money on him scoring a point in the final. Such a poor decision would not have been made by the likes of Gary May, Stewart Dickson or Middleditch........time for a change.

It was the correct decision. They’re building a team spirit and riders such as Brennan and Ellis have time to improve still. 

Any criticism of our team or the management after missing out on the World Cup in the final race is a little silly if you ask me. 

[GeneralMelchett]

44 minutes ago, Gavan said:

What level are you expecting Tai to perform at???

His 2013 level or 2015 level?

We’re you expecting Chris Holder to do better as he was a past world champion or Nicki Pedersen??

Tai’s level now is about world number 10 or so …. About as good as Janowski or Dudek …. He isn’t as good as Madsen , Jack Holder, Doyle …. And will struggle to beat the likes of Thomsen and Michelsen and Fricke and certainly isn’t anywhere near Zmarzliks class 

Riders lose form as they get older …. Remember Nicki and Chris fighting for a world title now they can’t get in their country’s top 4

Tai is a 3 time world champion and people expecting him to be at that level are kidding themselves 

In that class of company I thought Tai would do well to get 9 

Peoples judgement of him is because he once was the worlds best and last night after 2 , in my opinion unexpected wins, we assume he should have scored more and I agree that one point form his last 3 wasn’t good 

However i also expected Bewley to get more than 9 yet he escapes anyone’s criticism as it’s easier to bash Tai….. though in Bewleys defence he did have to wait a long time between his second and third rides which wasn’t ideal 

Both our early heat wins were off gate 1 - it was a huge advantage in the first heats! 

[Grachan]

1 hour ago, Gavan said:

What level are you expecting Tai to perform at???

His 2013 level or 2015 level?

We’re you expecting Chris Holder to do better as he was a past world champion or Nicki Pedersen??

Tai’s level now is about world number 10 or so …. About as good as Janowski or Dudek …. He isn’t as good as Madsen , Jack Holder, Doyle …. And will struggle to beat the likes of Thomsen and Michelsen and Fricke and certainly isn’t anywhere near Zmarzliks class 

Riders lose form as they get older …. Remember Nicki and Chris fighting for a world title now they can’t get in their country’s top 4

Tai is a 3 time world champion and people expecting him to be at that level are kidding themselves 

In that class of company I thought Tai would do well to get 9 

Peoples judgement of him is because he once was the worlds best and last night after 2 , in my opinion unexpected wins, we assume he should have scored more and I agree that one point form his last 3 wasn’t good 

However i also expected Bewley to get more than 9 yet he escapes anyone’s criticism as it’s easier to bash Tai….. though in Bewleys defence he did have to wait a long time between his second and third rides which wasn’t ideal 

Tai was similar to how he is in the GPs these days where he looks great in some heats and poor in others 

Often he looks like a potential winner only to fail to even make the semis.

The management decisions were fine, but we neede the top 3 to get big points. Even without that we came close enough to nearly give me a heart attack.

One thing I might have done differently would have been to put Bewley in the last race based on his Grand Prix final record of 3 finals and 3 wins. Probably would have made no difference though. Poland were so determined at the end.

 

[Bagpuss]

5 hours ago, eric i said:

Thats is what is wrong, it should be the riders that are most likely to score the most points. Charles wright would have been more likely than Brennen to score points. I think it cost us.

I expect the logic was that those who ride most Sundays in Poland were more likely to score points.