Hawk127 Posted Thursday at 01:27 PM Report Share Posted Thursday at 01:27 PM 5 minutes ago, mikebv said: Back in the 70's was fifty years ago... Lifestyles and challenges to disposable income have moved on considerably since then... As have massively inflation busting admission costs... A major part of Speedways problem is thinking what was fit for purpose 50 years ago, is still going to work today... A unique idea in modern days sports administration.... I think you are being a tad cynical, everyone knows on sits on the top table that the presentation is fit for purpose why else would it continue if it wasn’t? On the other hand it could do with a tweak or two, black leathers to start with and possibly use of the latest Jap engines and introduction of a track spare (and that is not the person running the shop) and of course 13 heats to save on costs. Maybe introduce a rule that allows only Aussie, South African and Scottish riders to compete in the league. Those changes would fix it for sure. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted Thursday at 01:34 PM Report Share Posted Thursday at 01:34 PM (edited) 7 minutes ago, Hawk127 said: I think you are being a tad cynical, everyone knows on sits on the top table that the presentation is fit for purpose why else would it continue if it wasn’t? On the other hand it could do with a tweak or two, black leathers to start with and possibly use of the latest Jap engines and introduction of a track spare (and that is not the person running the shop) and of course 13 heats to save on costs. Maybe introduce a rule that allows only Aussie, South African and Scottish riders to compete in the league. Those changes would fix it for sure. Monkey masks too.... Boiler suits worn and saw dust down when it is peeing down... And a full second half to win a "canteen of cutlery"... It would pack 'em in... Give us an A Give us a C Give us an E... Etc, etc etc... Maybe a three day week too? It would help with fixed race nights.... Edited Thursday at 01:35 PM by mikebv 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted Thursday at 02:40 PM Report Share Posted Thursday at 02:40 PM 1 hour ago, mikebv said: Back in the 70's was fifty years ago... Lifestyles and challenges to disposable income have moved on considerably since then... As have massively inflation busting admission costs... A major part of Speedways problem is thinking what was fit for purpose 50 years ago, is still going to work today... A unique idea in modern days sports administration.... It is a great shame that Speedway hasn't. The Sport seems to be stuck in a time warp - except for the bikes, which are far too powerful these days. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted Thursday at 03:05 PM Report Share Posted Thursday at 03:05 PM (edited) 30 minutes ago, The White Knight said: Duplicate post.. Edited Thursday at 03:12 PM by mikebv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted Thursday at 03:05 PM Report Share Posted Thursday at 03:05 PM (edited) 32 minutes ago, The White Knight said: It is a great shame that Speedway hasn't. The Sport seems to be stuck in a time warp - except for the bikes, which are far too powerful these days. The bikes deliver some fantastic racing, which, in my opinion has never been better at the highest level... Many of the tracks sadly are the issue with many of them still the same shape as they have been for decades... There was considerably more dirt down years ago, so more throttle control was needed, and bend entry speeds were less. Plus, riders entered them less sideways than they do now at full gas... Meaning that many of the bend entry lines that used to exist are taken away by the rider actioning a full on broadside... Hence. The tracks more circular, wider, and slicker, deliver some, regular, fantastic entertainment, with "too much grip" resulting in almost "riding on rails" at these tracks, as the dirt berm builds up.. Hoping to get to Worky this weekend to watch at one of them... Edited Thursday at 03:15 PM by mikebv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted Thursday at 03:30 PM Report Share Posted Thursday at 03:30 PM 7 minutes ago, mikebv said: The bikes deliver some fantastic racing, which, in my opinion has never been better at the highest level... Many of the tracks sadly are the issue with many of them still the same shape as they have been for decades... There was considerably more dirt down years ago, so more throttle control was needed, and bend entry speeds were less. Plus, riders entered them less sideways than they do now at full gas... Meaning that many of the bend entry lines that used to exist are taken away by the rider actioning a full on broadside... Hence. The tracks more circular, and slicker, deliver some, regular, fantastic entertainment... Hoping to get to Worky this weekend to watch at one of them... The Riders have to ride tthe Bikes on the Tracks provided. The only Track that I can see that is fit for purpose is the NSS. The bikes are far too fast to race on Tracks more fitted to upright engines than these 'lay downs' that they ride these days. Yes, even JAPs were in my opinion safer. The top speeds on these bikes were fast enough for the Sport. To be honest, I thought the racing was better too. I know people will talk about progress - but - only when it benefits Speedway, but to my mind these four-valve never did. I know that I am getting on in years, and unable to attend, but to me Speedway has regressed, not progressed over the years since the 60's, and 70's. If there is a case to be made for too much progress - then this is it. Oh!!! I preferred the 'one off' World Final to the current day GP's too, though I doubt that will surprise anyone on here. To me, the 60's and early 70's were the Golden Age of Speedway. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singy13 Posted Thursday at 06:03 PM Report Share Posted Thursday at 06:03 PM 4 hours ago, Hawk127 said: I think you are being a tad cynical, everyone knows on sits on the top table that the presentation is fit for purpose why else would it continue if it wasn’t? On the other hand it could do with a tweak or two, black leathers to start with and possibly use of the latest Jap engines and introduction of a track spare (and that is not the person running the shop) and of course 13 heats to save on costs. Maybe introduce a rule that allows only Aussie, South African and Scottish riders to compete in the league. Those changes would fix it for sure. Table with phone on it by starting gate to encourage angry riders to shout at ref. 30 yard marker to keep riders in lane. Fans up to track fences. Reserves race after 13 heats of match -followed by 'rider of the night'. Guys scraping shale off fences. People on ladders outside stadium having free view (at Workington). Programme 6d. Challenge matches. Foreign touring teams e.g. Sweden, Poland, Checks (can't spell). Inter league challenges. 4000 crowds not 400..etc, etc, so what went wrong? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted Thursday at 06:27 PM Report Share Posted Thursday at 06:27 PM (edited) 5 hours ago, 1 valve said: But when UK clubs choose their desired desired race nights and their riders, they would need to consider, Tuesdays - No riders with Swedish contracts Wednesdays - No riders with Danish contracts Friday/Saturday/Sunday No riders with Polish contracts Also no doubling up I'd say UK clubs, when choosing their race night need to determine when they think their best crowds would be... That is when a rider is going to have to make their mind up whether a 28 (ish) league contract in the UK (and for some the right to move here) is better than whatever the other leagues offer. Edited Thursday at 06:29 PM by IainB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted Thursday at 06:51 PM Report Share Posted Thursday at 06:51 PM 10 minutes ago, IainB said: I'd say UK clubs, when choosing their race night need to determine when they think their best crowds would be... That is when a rider is going to have to make their mind up whether a 28 (ish) league contract in the UK (and for some the right to move here) is better than whatever the other leagues offer. Or the leagues that hold their licences dictate they must prioritise their own league...? Many riders now won't ride here due to actually not wanting the travel for possible several meetings per week, and having to have kit over here.... One meeting each weekend in Poland and Scandinavia on Tues and Wed seems to be enough for those many "top and middle order" riders that currently give the UK a miss... One league with even more meetings per week won't attract too many more than come now, and may even mean some current ones dropping out.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted Thursday at 06:55 PM Report Share Posted Thursday at 06:55 PM 2 minutes ago, mikebv said: Or the leagues that hold their licences dictate they must prioritise their own league...? Many riders now won't ride here due to actually not wanting the travel for possible several meetings per week, and having to have kit over here.... One meeting each weekend in Poland and Scandinavia on Tues and Wed seems to be enough for those many "top and middle order" riders that currently give the UK a miss... One league with even more meetings per week won't attract too many more than come now, and may even mean some current ones dropping out.. It may not attract them at the moment, but... if the sport is taken seriously by the media, crowds increase, a juicy tv contract is forthcoming, then who knows? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted Thursday at 06:56 PM Report Share Posted Thursday at 06:56 PM Just now, IainB said: It may not attract them at the moment, but... if the sport is taken seriously by the media, crowds increase, a juicy tv contract is forthcoming, then who knows? How long have they got for that to happen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted Thursday at 06:57 PM Report Share Posted Thursday at 06:57 PM Just now, mikebv said: How long have they got for that to happen? Well... the sooner they start the better imo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted Thursday at 08:35 PM Report Share Posted Thursday at 08:35 PM 1 hour ago, IainB said: Well... the sooner they start the better imo Should have done it when the internet and social media started... Running their own "closed shop" with scant regard for sporting authenticity, and putting their employees needs forward, before the fans, was never going to get a free pass in the modern digital age... "Oh, for the 1970's eh?"☺️ One league will just mean guestfest after guestfest, particularly on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday and Saturday due to the inevitable clashes with Sweden, Denmark and Poland,, so it still won't be taken seriously by the media. Or . They don't sign riders from those nations... And that leaves (?) to fill the 70 places, (if they run it with five riders teams)... Personally, if it is one league, then run with guestfest after guestfest but do it on the best night for each club to deliver the best crowd . They simply cannot bring credibility to the sport, as they would have surely done it by now, as they must know the adverse impact it has had to crowds over the past decade or so, as riders went missing time and time again.. Sell the night out at the Speedway on the best night for you individually ,rather than try and sell any importance in the league itself.. As that (as we have all seen for a long time, and still continue to see today), would be a tough sell... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted Thursday at 10:02 PM Report Share Posted Thursday at 10:02 PM 1 hour ago, mikebv said: Should have done it when the internet and social media started... Running their own "closed shop" with scant regard for sporting authenticity, and putting their employees needs forward, before the fans, was never going to get a free pass in the modern digital age... "Oh, for the 1970's eh?"☺️ One league will just mean guestfest after guestfest, particularly on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday and Saturday due to the inevitable clashes with Sweden, Denmark and Poland,, so it still won't be taken seriously by the media. Or . They don't sign riders from those nations... And that leaves (?) to fill the 70 places, (if they run it with five riders teams)... Personally, if it is one league, then run with guestfest after guestfest but do it on the best night for each club to deliver the best crowd . They simply cannot bring credibility to the sport, as they would have surely done it by now, as they must know the adverse impact it has had to crowds over the past decade or so, as riders went missing time and time again.. Sell the night out at the Speedway on the best night for you individually ,rather than try and sell any importance in the league itself.. As that (as we have all seen for a long time, and still continue to see today), would be a tough sell... We are where we are though, unfortunately, and sooner or later something radical will need to be done and each passing year they keep rinsing and repeating the existing output makes the chances of any radical change succeeding less and less likely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowboy cookie returns? Posted 21 hours ago Report Share Posted 21 hours ago 11 hours ago, IainB said: It may not attract them at the moment, but... if the sport is taken seriously by the media, crowds increase, a juicy tv contract is forthcoming, then who knows? That would entice them, However one weak league isn’t going to achieve that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted 19 hours ago Report Share Posted 19 hours ago 1 hour ago, cowboy cookie returns? said: That would entice them, However one weak league isn’t going to achieve that. Not on day one, there is no magic wand overnight fix though, Speedway has been run into the ground over the course of the last 40 years, it's going to take time to rebuild. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 valve Posted 18 hours ago Report Share Posted 18 hours ago 14 hours ago, IainB said: I'd say UK clubs, when choosing their race night need to determine when they think their best crowds would be... That is when a rider is going to have to make their mind up whether a 28 (ish) league contract in the UK (and for some the right to move here) is better than whatever the other leagues offer. If clubs elect to choose a race night say other than Monday or Tuesday, they might well be able to make up a team of riders willing to forgo commitments abroad. However, the issue would be other teams would not have the same type of availability, especially for riders contracted to Polish leagues. Not sure how you come up with 28 matches. is that a league of 14 clubs (13 opponents) home and away plus some sort of cup competition or a league of 8 (7 opponents) home and away x two? The latter would/could work (fixed race nights) but the first is a none starter simply because of the removal of doubling up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted 18 hours ago Report Share Posted 18 hours ago 1 minute ago, 1 valve said: If clubs elect to choose a race night say other than Monday or Tuesday, they might well be able to make up a team of riders willing to forgo commitments abroad. However, the issue would be other teams would not have the same type of availability, especially for riders contracted to Polish leagues. Not sure how you come up with 28 matches. is that a league of 14 clubs (13 opponents) home and away plus some sort of cup competition or a league of 8 (7 opponents) home and away x two? The latter would/could work (fixed race nights) but the first is a none starter simply because of the removal of doubling up. 13 opponents is 26 matches 1H1A, throw in a cup competition and that's a minimum of 26 matches, a cup run and pay offs takes that to around 30. Maybe bring back a 4's... which were always popular meetings and you're starting to put a credible season together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 valve Posted 17 hours ago Report Share Posted 17 hours ago 20 minutes ago, IainB said: 13 opponents is 26 matches 1H1A, throw in a cup competition and that's a minimum of 26 matches, a cup run and pay offs takes that to around 30. Maybe bring back a 4's... which were always popular meetings and you're starting to put a credible season together. The concept is good and very much alongside the numbers back in the day, when UK had pick of race nights and plenty of riders available to make up the teams which is now sadly far from the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted 17 hours ago Report Share Posted 17 hours ago 2 minutes ago, 1 valve said: The concept is good and very much alongside the numbers back in the day, when UK had pick of race nights and plenty of riders available to make up the teams which is now sadly far from the case. Business as usual then? And just plod along until the inevitable happens? Working around Poland and riders that prioritise test sessions and U24 matches ahead of the UK? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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