Belle Vue v Ipswich Monday 4th August Live on TV

[bellevueace]

11 hours ago, Roger Jacobs said:

Did the Lemon say anything to Bewley and Kurtz before the Stupid Heat?  Bewley throttle-jockeying off into the distance was of no use to the Aces - if he at least tried to hold up Sayfutdinov, and maybe even let Sayfutdinov go so he could try help Kurtz ... as it was his huge margin of victory in the race was of no benefit at all, when he could have at least tried all-or-nothing. 

Exactly my point about non existent team riding nowadays a lost skill.

Edited 4 hours ago by bellevueace

[ShanoXtra]

27 minutes ago, PhilTheAce said:

slowing down a race at NSS is so difficult. also i imagine he thinks brady can handle himself which 99% of the time he can but jason rode an exceptional race to keep him behind, used all his experience 

I think this where Doyle and Emil are superior to Kurtz and Bewley, they team ride the best out of any big guns in this league when needed and constantly look for each other when racing. Bewley and Kurtz are still young though so it’s these things they can learn, no criticism to them. Let’s see if they have a different attitude when they are faced with being knocked out of the play offs if the same situation occur. 

[szkocjasid]

2 hours ago, PhilTheAce said:

slowing down a race at NSS is so difficult. also i imagine he thinks brady can handle himself which 99% of the time he can but jason rode an exceptional race to keep him behind, used all his experience 

While I totally agree with that, it's not really a track where it's easy to block someone, there would also be no harm in trying, if Bewley lost first place by slowing up, it wouldn't have cost them anything.

[DaveWayne]

2 hours ago, bellevueace said:

Exactly my point about non existent team riding nowadays a lost skill.

Obviously I don't see Bewley as often as BV fans do, but I have always felt this is the area where he is lacking. Fantastic individual rider, but rarely seems to give any assistance to his riding partner.

Before I am accused of bias, I will say that I have the same criticism of Jack Holder, although it is an area where he seems to be improving.

By comparison, the way we saw Tai working with the lower order riders when he returned to Sheffield in 2023 was a different level. Constantly looking for them, letting them past and then giving protection. Chris Holder also very good at this, so maybe it is something that comes with age.

[PhilTheAce]

3 minutes ago, DaveWayne said:

Obviously I don't see Bewley as often as BV fans do, but I have always felt this is the area where he is lacking. Fantastic individual rider, but rarely seems to give any assistance to his riding partner.

Before I am accused of bias, I will say that I have the same criticism of Jack Holder, although it is an area where he seems to be improving.

By comparison, the way we saw Tai working with the lower order riders when he returned to Sheffield in 2023 was a different level. Constantly looking for them, letting them past and then giving protection. Chris Holder also very good at this, so maybe it is something that comes with age.

id say that is a fair assesment which does get mentioned on the aces terraces

[PhilTheAce]

29 minutes ago, szkocjasid said:

While I totally agree with that, it's not really a track where it's easy to block someone, there would also be no harm in trying, if Bewley lost first place by slowing up, it wouldn't have cost them anything.

very true, but dan also probably didnt know what the outcome means, i mean he did like 3 laps of wheelies after heat 15 then did doughnuts before being dragged back to the pits, hahaha

[Bald Bloke]

2 hours ago, ShanoXtra said:

I think this where Doyle and Emil are superior to Kurtz and Bewley, they team ride the best out of any big guns in this league when needed and constantly look for each other when racing. Bewley and Kurtz are still young though so it’s these things they can learn, no criticism to them. Let’s see if they have a different attitude when they are faced with being knocked out of the play offs if the same situation occur. 

At 26 and 28 and with the quality they have, they should be more than capable of team riding if they want to.

[ouch]

15 hours ago, Roger Jacobs said:

You're the one who's debating it, with all your ifs.

As I have stated several times, we will never know that would have happened if Lidsey rode, so there's no point in predicting one way or the other.

 

I think we spend as much time on here discussing what might be prior to a meeting as we do discussing a meeting result. We use past performance as a way of formulating our predictions and I feel this predicting is right and proper on a speedway forum. 

We predict what Dan and Jake will likely score together with all those in between and we do this for both teams. 

Using this method we can arrive at a likely score for any particular rider and base our assumptions on this. If we are to stop doing this then pre meeting discussion will be less than it is now, which is down greatly from its heyday. 

On the Jaimon scores we need to remember he would have been partnered by a very effective Zach Cook so we can’t just willy nilly add 4 or 5 points to our total. Using the previously mentioned method of predicting scores I’d have us finishing on 48 points with Jaimon in and it would still have been a last heat decider. As I posted before, not a convincing win and not one to inspire an aggregate win should we meet in the play offs. 

 

[ouch]

14 hours ago, Roger Jacobs said:

Did the Lemon say anything to Bewley and Kurtz before the Stupid Heat?  Bewley throttle-jockeying off into the distance was of no use to the Aces - if he at least tried to hold up Sayfutdinov, and maybe even let Sayfutdinov go so he could try help Kurtz ... as it was his huge margin of victory in the race was of no benefit at all, when he could have at least tried all-or-nothing. 

Given Dan’s showboating after heat 15 I’d guess the communication between manager and riders was sadly lacking. You hit the nail on the head about letting Emil go and concentrate on Jason, a tactic that I think would have worked if attempted. 

It’s always been a bugbear for me when riders are told the score and they say they had no idea. If I was manager I tell all my team that I could ask them the score at any time and I’d want a correct answer. Sure, riders want to win but the team must come first so why jeopardise a needed safe position with an unnecessary 

risky passing manoeuvre. 

It’s very different these days as it’s a group of individuals riding for a club and not a team in the true sense of the word. If a rider doesn’t know the meeting score how will they know if Jake is have a bad time and needs some assistance?