Tom Turner 347 Posted February 14, 2014 Do you really think a newcomer cares about the nuances of race formats, averages and team building? I think they couldn't care less, and its only the die hard speedway fsns who do. Newcomers imho just want a good nighrs entertainment in a stafium with decent atmosphere, for a reasonable price. I cared when I started attending speedway. I took great fascination in learning the ins and outs of the sport as without knowing the rules it doesn't make much sense to anyone? Just try explaining home and away scoring to a newcomer... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waiheke1 4,295 Posted February 14, 2014 I cared when I started attending speedway. I took great fascination in learning the ins and outs of the sport as without knowing the rules it doesn't make much sense to anyone? Just try explaining home and away scoring to a newcomer... Surely they must be a bit thick if they cant understand the home and away scoring? Its not rocjet science, and no more complex than that used in various rugby, cricket etc. Comps. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pete cc 322 Posted February 14, 2014 as usual i ask 1 question and get 32 different answers. Thats speedway. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
g13webb 4,254 Posted February 15, 2014 Do you really think a newcomer cares about the nuances of race formats, averages and team building? I think they couldn't care less, and its only the die hard speedway fsns who do. Newcomers imho just want a good nighrs entertainment in a stafium with decent atmosphere, for a reasonable price. This is where the problems may lie. Surely you must be able to understand the sport, before you can enjoy the atmosphere and excitement, and the cost has to be relevant to that excitement. By dismissing 'Newcomers' from the equation, we have to ask ourselves where are the next generation of supporters coming from. The sport, 4 riders racing each other for 4 laps on bikes with no brakes, is in affect a simple, straight forward idea, its the rules that make it complicated. It is my belief that these, ever changing rules are the main reasons behind the poor attendances. We have no continuality that the supporter can relate with. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
T.N.T. 355 Posted February 15, 2014 Kind of. Before or during the meeting if a rider is missing it's the next above and all below in the averages that can take a ride. If top or 2nd in averages, the remaining riders can replace these rides If 3rd in averages, 2nd and below can take a ride If 4th in averages, 3rd and below can take a ride and so on The only notible change from last season is R/R comes into force for a rider withdrawn from a meeting already started, removing the need for a No'8 rider With R/R coming into force with a rider withdrawn from the meeting, you can see his being used a few times to gain advanage. For example only ...... Poole (don't know why I use them but ...... ) If Josh Gracjzonek is sudenly withdrawn from the meeting having ridden two pointless rides, Poole ould then use Maciej Janowski and Vaclav Milik (both scoring well) in his remaining rides !!! Can see a few strained freckles or fractured fingernails ruling out a rider strugglingon the night being rested in tight matches in order to gain an advantge. Also these riders could possiblybe used as a tactical ride so in the example, Poole are 10 points down at Eastbourne where Kim Nilsson and Lewis Blackbird are set to face Josh and Kyle Newman. Josh is ruled out with a sprained eyelash and in comes Magi as r/r and also tactical NOTE; ...... This is only an EXMPLE and names of riders and club are only that and I'm not saying this will happen when such serious injuries like those listed occur !! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
INCOGNITO 357 Posted February 15, 2014 In theory this is a good idea but it needs a few things putting in place first. If a rider is ruled out of the meeting in his first ride through no fault of his own then r/r should be used. However if he has taken a ride then the rider above should not be able to take a ride. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
barrow boy 119 Posted February 15, 2014 With R/R coming into force with a rider withdrawn from the meeting, you can see his being used a few times to gain advanage. For example only ...... Poole (don't know why I use them but ...... ) If Josh Gracjzonek is sudenly withdrawn from the meeting having ridden two pointless rides, Poole ould then use Maciej Janowski and Vaclav Milik (both scoring well) in his remaining rides !!! Can see a few strained freckles or fractured fingernails ruling out a rider strugglingon the night being rested in tight matches in order to gain an advantge. Also these riders could possiblybe used as a tactical ride so in the example, Poole are 10 points down at Eastbourne where Kim Nilsson and Lewis Blackbird are set to face Josh and Kyle Newman. Josh is ruled out with a sprained eyelash and in comes Magi as r/r and also tactical NOTE; ...... This is only an EXMPLE and names of riders and club are only that and I'm not saying this will happen when such serious injuries like those listed occur !! But when this idea was first suggested by a promoter it was only to apply if a top rider was unable to continue after his first ride so it could not be used as a tactic. Only an aid to a weakened team. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigcatdiary 3,165 Posted February 15, 2014 So if rider is having an off day could he just claim he is not fit, withdraw after his third ride let the rider above him in the averages take his fourth ride. Or if he is having a really off day they can pull him out after 2 rides and use two others who are riding well. Yep I am quite sure this won't be abused like everyone else, anyone of these bright sparks owning up to having thought up this genius of an idea. And people wonder why this sport isn't taken seriously. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skidder1 7,637 Posted February 15, 2014 With R/R coming into force with a rider withdrawn from the meeting, you can see his being used a few times to gain advanage. For example only ...... Poole (don't know why I use them but ...... ) If Josh Gracjzonek is sudenly withdrawn from the meeting having ridden two pointless rides, Poole ould then use Maciej Janowski and Vaclav Milik (both scoring well) in his remaining rides !!! Can see a few strained freckles or fractured fingernails ruling out a rider strugglingon the night being rested in tight matches in order to gain an advantge. Also these riders could possiblybe used as a tactical ride so in the example, Poole are 10 points down at Eastbourne where Kim Nilsson and Lewis Blackbird are set to face Josh and Kyle Newman. Josh is ruled out with a sprained eyelash and in comes Magi as r/r and also tactical NOTE; ...... This is only an EXMPLE and names of riders and club are only that and I'm not saying this will happen when such serious injuries like those listed occur !! Very poor example!! Why on earth would you think Magic will be available to ride at Eastbourne?? Even if he's there, Josh with a 'sprained eyelash' would still be a better bet!!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Barney Rabbit 727 Posted February 15, 2014 With R/R coming into force with a rider withdrawn from the meeting, you can see his being used a few times to gain advanage. For example only ...... Poole (don't know why I use them but ...... ) If Josh Gracjzonek is sudenly withdrawn from the meeting having ridden two pointless rides, Poole ould then use Maciej Janowski and Vaclav Milik (both scoring well) in his remaining rides !!! Can see a few strained freckles or fractured fingernails ruling out a rider strugglingon the night being rested in tight matches in order to gain an advantge. Also these riders could possiblybe used as a tactical ride so in the example, Poole are 10 points down at Eastbourne where Kim Nilsson and Lewis Blackbird are set to face Josh and Kyle Newman. Josh is ruled out with a sprained eyelash and in comes Magi as r/r and also tactical NOTE; ...... This is only an EXMPLE and names of riders and club are only that and I'm not saying this will happen when such serious injuries like those listed occur !! The person having the final say as to which rider pulling out of a meeting can be replaced by R/R must be unbiased with no allegiance to any team and that can only be the referee. That's why only a rider crashing out in an incident for which an opponent is excluded should be covered by that rule. Okay, it can still be taken advantage of if said rider isn't actually injured but having a 'mare, but that's hard luck - don't knock opponents off their machines. I would add, though, that once replaced by R/R the rider can't take a subsequent ride. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Crazy robin 2,963 Posted February 15, 2014 The person having the final say as to which rider pulling out of a meeting can be replaced by R/R must be unbiased with no allegiance to any team and that can only be the referee. That's why only a rider crashing out in an incident for which an opponent is excluded should be covered by that rule. Okay, it can still be taken advantage of if said rider isn't actually injured but having a 'mare, but that's hard luck - don't knock opponents off their machines. I would add, though, that once replaced by R/R the rider can't take a subsequent ride. Can't see how a referee will be able to say whether a rider is suffering from a blurred vision etc as they would be in serious legal doo doo if proved wrong & a rider got injured. Lets be honest & just say the whole thing is an absoloute mess & has more holes in it that a sieve. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pete cc 322 Posted February 15, 2014 (edited) so let me get this right, If i get drunk, wake up with a hangover my unemployed friend can take my place, paint the foremans office red & i can go in tomorrow.Or anybody can replace anybody else when they like as long as its not cheating. Im confused & looking forward to the season after next. I think? Edited February 15, 2014 by pete cc Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Daniel Smith 5,661 Posted February 15, 2014 I've actually learnt a lot over this winter, mainly about the speedway rule book. Especially the proposed new ones. One thing we've all asked for is a simplified rule book but when you think about it, how can it be? Nearly everyone has heard the proposed rules yet the simplified explanations given from promoters has led to us coming to very different conclusions. We've all been critical of some clubs for bending rules but the truth is, interpretation is very very difficult to govern. Half the time no rules are broken just seen differently. A simple rule explained in a simple manor can have multiple variances. This is what makes a simple sport we could put into 4 pages of rules expand into 100's. Just like last season (which was one of the first I'd properly enjoyed for some years) I avoided chasing around the rule book. It's all new this season so I'm going to do the same again. Speedway is at it's best watching back wheels being chased and seeing my team win. If the team is good enough, rules don't matter to the spectator. I can't wait for tapes up time now 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Barney Rabbit 727 Posted February 15, 2014 Can't see how a referee will be able to say whether a rider is suffering from a blurred vision etc as they would be in serious legal doo doo if proved wrong & a rider got injured. Lets be honest & just say the whole thing is an absoloute mess & has more holes in it that a sieve. What I tried to say was that the referee decided, by excluding an opponent in an incident in which the 'injured' rider was involved, that any future rides can be taken by R/R if the doctor declares that rider unfit to carry on. The excluded rider's rides can't be covered by R/R should he also be declared unfit to carry on. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SCB 0 Posted February 16, 2014 I've actually learnt a lot over this winter, mainly about the speedway rule book. Especially the proposed new ones. One thing we've all asked for is a simplified rule book but when you think about it, how can it be? Nearly everyone has heard the proposed rules yet the simplified explanations given from promoters has led to us coming to very different conclusions. We've all been critical of some clubs for bending rules but the truth is, interpretation is very very difficult to govern. Half the time no rules are broken just seen differently. A simple rule explained in a simple manor can have multiple variances. This is what makes a simple sport we could put into 4 pages of rules expand into 100's. Just like last season (which was one of the first I'd properly enjoyed for some years) I avoided chasing around the rule book. It's all new this season so I'm going to do the same again. Speedway is at it's best watching back wheels being chased and seeing my team win. If the team is good enough, rules don't matter to the spectator. I can't wait for tapes up time now Ive said for a long time, the rulebook actually is quite simple. It's about 7 pages long. The issue isn't the rulebook but how rules are ignored, bent and treated differently depending on who is asking. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
