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32 minutes ago, Grachan said:

On the night attendance is clearly affected by tv, but it's not just speedway that is affected in this way.

There is a Swansea v Sheff Wed football match live on BBC1 at the moment. Take a look at the crowd!

FA Cup crowds have been way down for a long time, regardless of TV.

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6 minutes ago, BWitcher said:

FA Cup crowds have been way down for a long time, regardless of TV.

I think that's because he club's don't take the fa cup serious any more so why should the supporters ?

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12 hours ago, BWitcher said:

No, I just know about general human nature. TV may have given them an excuse to stop going, but the reasons they stopped going lie elsewhere. Those reasons would have stopped them going altogether at some point.. tv is simply keeping their interest alive.

Gosh - such a highly qualified person on the BSF - who would have thought it! :wink:

You may know about your own human nature - and that of your nearest and dearest - but the wider world, oh no you don't!

Seriously - you actually prove my point by saying "tv may have given them an excuse to stop going"

They definitely wouldn't have opted out of so many meetings had speedway not been televised - which is the whole point I make

 

 

 

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11 hours ago, Grachan said:

On the night attendance is clearly affected by tv, but it's not just speedway that is affected in this way.

There is a Swansea v Sheff Wed football match live on BBC1 at the moment. Take a look at the crowd!

Have you tried getting a ticket for a Premier League fixture?  

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Most tiny, minority sports with crowd levels similar to Speedway would kill to get the coverage British Speedway has enjoyed over the years.

And given the opportunity you would also think that they would do a far better job in utilising this media vehicle to move their sport forwards..

I sometimes think those who run the sport in this country see it far differently than the general wider populace and in their eyes it is actually a bona fide 'proper' sport rather than a niche, cobbled together most nights, conduit, for riders to ride as many times as they can to earn enough money as possible to justify their outlay on machinery...

The emotional connection to 'their team' , for many fans, is simply long gone due to the farcical way most meetings are now participated in by a 'whoever is available select team'.

Therefore, not bothering to attend such a nonsense scenario, and keeping your hard earned in your pocket, is very much a distinct possibility (probability?) when you have an alternative to it by watching four lads in different coloured helmets compete in fifteen races on TV, regardless of whether 'your team' is being covered or not..

Watching racing on TV is now similar to watching it live when it comes to that emotional connection most weeks, therefore when you have paid for your subscription why pay more to attend something that isnt a true sporting contest and is also something you have very little emotional attachment too..?

TV coverage isn't helping to 'kill' British Speedway, in fact it should have made it a big player given the tens of millions it has provided it with and the thousands of hours of coverage over the years..

Unfortunately those in charge haven't had a clue how to use either the money or the coverage to build Speedway in this country, and instead of haggling for 'how much' they want given, they should be very grateful TV are still interested in their tiny,  insular, poorly ran Sport..

I attend Premier League football most weeks, with my team on live TV probably 80% of the time due to their pulling power in generating a TV audience. I pay a hell of lot more to watch them than I do BV...

If however, my team allowed David De Gea to play for Arsenal one week, Chelsea the next and Liverpool the week after, do you think I and thousands of others would continue to pay to attend such nonsense? Of course not... 

Sort out the Sport by running it with integrity and credibility..

Until then no one can blame TV for reducing crowd levels...

 

Edited by mikebv
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1 hour ago, Midland Red said:

Gosh - such a highly qualified person on the BSF - who would have thought it! :wink:

You may know about your own human nature - and that of your nearest and dearest - but the wider world, oh no you don't!

Seriously - you actually prove my point by saying "tv may have given them an excuse to stop going"

They definitely wouldn't have opted out of so many meetings had speedway not been televised - which is the whole point I make

 

 

 

Actually I do. 

Fortunately TV has kept the interest of these people for a longer period so they still attend occasionally. Without TV the actual issues that have caused them to skip meetings and watch 'other' clubs on TV would have simply meant they stopped going to the sport altogether.

TV is the tip of the iceberg you can see, it's not what sinks the ship. Dig deeper and you'll find the real reasons.

 

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Baffling!  Now you're saying more people would have drifted away from speedway had it not been on tv (which is NOT the same as saying people have been attracted to the sport through it being televised)

Please supply proof that you do actually know about the wider world's human nature

I'm not sure you understand your own!

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2 minutes ago, Midland Red said:

Baffling!  Now you're saying more people would have drifted away from speedway had it not been on tv (which is NOT the same as saying people have been attracted to the sport through it being televised)

Please supply proof that you do actually know about the wider world's human nature

I'm not sure you understand your own!

Baffling you say, yet the evidence is already there from the thousands who drifted away prior to TV coverage and were quite simply lost.

It really isn't rocket science. If the customer was happy with the product they wouldn't be deciding to skip it to watch another team on TV instead. TV is just providing them with the excuse to break that 'habit'. It is also keeping that waning interest alive so they do attend some matches still. Without TV they'd have continued attending regularly for a little longer but those underlying issues would still have been there and the more regular exposure to them would have eventually caused them to stop entirely.. and with nothing on TV to rekindle the flame, they are lost to the sport.

As said, the first thing people say as a reason for not buying something is very often not the real reason.

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I'm not talking about those who drifted away prior to the vast increase in televised speedway

It's those who have gone since - indeed there may be many reasons, but it is the televising that causes them to stay away

For example, there are financial savings to be gained by watching on tv compared with regular track attendance

Televising therefore offers that incentive, being the cause of staying away, not the reason

Your knowledge of human nature does not seem to recognise that some patrons actually enjoy the sport itself, with no tribal instinct to support only one team - therefore "skipping it to watch another team on tv" doesn't actually enter their equation

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47 minutes ago, Midland Red said:

 

Your knowledge of human nature does not seem to recognise that some patrons actually enjoy the sport itself, with no tribal instinct to support only one team - therefore "skipping it to watch another team on tv" doesn't actually enter their equation

A very small minority.

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1 minute ago, BWitcher said:

A very small minority.

I take it from your previous comments that you actually know each of them and everything about their nature

Will you accept that the increased amount of televised speedway in recent years has actually caused attendances at league meetings in the UK to fall?

I'm not saying it's the only cause

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49 minutes ago, Midland Red said:

I take it from your previous comments that you actually know each of them and everything about their nature

Will you accept that the increased amount of televised speedway in recent years has actually caused attendances at league meetings in the UK to fall?

I'm not saying it's the only cause

No, because it is impossible to prove.

I know of a number of people who have started attending the sport since TV coverage came in.

What I will say is that the way the tv coverage has been used has not been anywhere near as beneficial to the sport as it should have been in terms of attracting new fans. It's not TV coverage itself that is the problem, simply the way it has been used.

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1 hour ago, Midland Red said:

Will you accept that the increased amount of televised speedway in recent years has actually caused attendances at league meetings in the UK to fall?

 

If 25 meetings per year is enough to stop people wanting to attend domestic speedway meetings then the BSPA are doing something badly wrong that people do not feel invested in their local teams and do not care about seeing it live.

And I know you meant all the speedway on TV include Sweden, Polish replays, and the BSI and One Sport events.  But those are beyond the ability of British fans to easily attend and outside of the control of authorities and promotions here to do anything about.

Besides, every sport has international competitions and faces leagues from other countries being televised.  Very few blame their failings on it rather than seeing what they can do to make their gamedays as attractive as possible, and make their teams important parts of their community so that people are invested in them rather than just seeing the sport as a TV programme.

And what sort of solution is offered by blaming TV anyway?  If the BSPA decides to protect attendances by dropping any TV coverage, it is not without precedent as that is what the EIHL did, then there will still be a lot of speedway on TV from around Europe.  So if that is the problem taking the SGB Premiership out of the mix will not improve anything.  

Were attendances increased for the first part of last season, before BT's coverage began in the summer?

Incidentally, the attendances for the EIHL dropped very slightly after their decision so at best it had no impact.  Although their games were only on Premier Sports, and many of their clubs sell live streams to their games anyway.  I am also not sure whether they contributed to the production costs either, in which case it could still be a financial gain.  Meanwhile the second tier of ice hockey collapsed, and with FreeSports picking up the KHL playoffs there will be more hockey on TV.

TV coverage provides a platform to attract fans and sponsors.  It is then up to the sport how it chooses to take advantage of that, and the whole experience of attending a meeting in general, to make people want to turn up and keep returning.

If people would rather be a neutral than support a team, if they would rather watch anyone on TV than attend a match, then either the TV coverage is phenomenally good or the sport is is promoting itself poorly.  I actually enjoy Nigel and Kelvin, and even I do not think the former.

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From the time Speedway was televised live attendances has never stopped falling at the tracks.  TV is the worst enemy that Speedway can have.Attendances at the tracks will never go up until they stop showing it live. It does no favours for any sport

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Funny how only speedway has lost supporters due to television coverage. It's quite an achievement when you think about it, if it were true.

 

Maybe it would be better if TV walked away and spent its efforts on a more intelligent and grateful sport. 

 

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