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Sidney the robin

Briggs, Fundin, Mauger , Crump, Rickardsson, Roll of honour.

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Norwich won the National Trophy in 1955 and 1963.

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8 hours ago, steve roberts said:

I's agree that Rickardsson is up there with the best of them but I always questioned his team ethic and leadership qualities which is something I always base any assessment (rightly or wrongly) on who was the best etc. I tend to look beyond just World Championship honours although obviously important within the grand scheme of things. The likes of Mauger, Olsen, Nielsen etc developed a team around them and nurtured their potential and Ronnie Moore was probably regarded as the best team rider during any era and some regarded him as being the most naturally gifted rider of his generation.

Maybe. But it is comparing apples and pears. Different times, different priorities. Had there been year long GP series and bigger bucks to be earned in Poland and Sweden back in the 70s, I think Exeter and Hull fans would have been seeing a very different Ivan Mauger, if they would have even seen him at all. He was great presence for all his clubs. But he was also very well paid. 

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52 minutes ago, falcace said:

Maybe. But it is comparing apples and pears. Different times, different priorities. Had there been year long GP series and bigger bucks to be earned in Poland and Sweden back in the 70s, I think Exeter and Hull fans would have been seeing a very different Ivan Mauger, if they would have even seen him at all. He was great presence for all his clubs. But he was also very well paid. 

That's always the issue of course comparing riders from different eras...different criteria, bikes, tracks and it's very difficult attempting to pass judgement but fun all the same!

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53 minutes ago, falcace said:

I think Exeter and Hull fans would have been seeing a very different Ivan Mauger, if they would have even seen him at all. He was great presence for all his clubs. But he was also very well paid. 

We both know that there are a number of people on the BSF who won't agree with that - or don't WANT to believe that...

When I look back at some of the attitudes in years gone by, it's amazing how many people thought that world speedway should revolve around Britain, and British speedway. Now we are only a minor player on the world scene (largely self-inflicted, but not totally), there is a lot of resentment towards others - which is totally unwarranted.

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3 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

That's always the issue of course comparing riders from different eras...different criteria, bikes, tracks and it's very difficult attempting to pass judgement but fun all the same!

Of course, and as long as you have a balanced and realistic view, there's nowt wrong wi' it...

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1 hour ago, chunky said:

Of course, and as long as you have a balanced and realistic view, there's nowt wrong wi' it...

...and that's always the dilemma with many of these things!

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, chunky said:

Of course, and as long as you have a balanced and realistic view, there's nowt wrong wi' it...

Peter Craven was the wizard of balance, does that mean he was the greatest?

Edited by norbold

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7 minutes ago, norbold said:

Peter Craven was the wizard of balance, does that mean he was the greatest?

You are obviously UNbalanced!!! :rofl:

Tom Farndon was the greatest! :t:

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Posted (edited)

I do think when you are a supporter of a certain rider you could be blinkered , most of us are  very guilty of that myself included more than anyone.

 

My point is Falcace gave us all a great post  he said some of us would consider, Rickardsson,Crump, Pedersen, Hancock in the top fifteen riders  of all time.Myself  personally only Ricko, Crump, would be considered in a top 10 after that all up to conjecture not that they were not good anough but over a test of time there are loads of great riders to consider.

Edited by Sidney the robin
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2 hours ago, Sidney the robin said:

I do think when you are a supporter of a certain rider you could be blinkered , most of us are  very guilty of that myself included more than anyone.

 

 

Exactly. I consider Barry Thomas to be the greatest rider ever :D

Tony Rickardsson would be number 1 for me for two reasons. He was a whisker away from winning 5 consecutive world titles, (ok technically he finished 3rd in 2000, but does anybody honestly believe that he wouldn't have won the final if Mark Loram hadn't got the second place he needed in the consolation final?)

Secondly for his astonishing performance in the 2005 series. 6 wins, one 2nd and a 3rd from 9 rounds.

In league racing however, it's got to be Hans Nielsen. He was just a points machine!

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7 hours ago, steve roberts said:

That's always the issue of course comparing riders from different eras...different criteria, bikes, tracks and it's very difficult attempting to pass judgement but fun all the same!

It is fun of course and I love doing it as much as anyone, but it really is an impossible job. The more time goes on the more older greats are forgotten. What the "greatest" really means for most people  is the greatest you have experience of. How many these days would put Vic Huxley or Frank Arthur in their top 10?

In fact, the only pre-War rider who even gets a mention these days is Tom Farndon and that's only me (and chunky!) What about Bluey Wilkinson, Eric Langton, the Milne Brothers, Lionel Van Praag and so on and so on? There is no-one around now who has any real knowledge of them at their peak, so no-one can really compare them. It's only with Jack Young and the Big Five we begin to get actual memories and, over time, those memories will fade too. "The Greatest" is a movable feast.

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42 minutes ago, Terry said:

Exactly. I consider Barry Thomas to be the greatest rider ever :D

Tony Rickardsson would be number 1 for me for two reasons. He was a whisker away from winning 5 consecutive world titles, (ok technically he finished 3rd in 2000, but does anybody honestly believe that he wouldn't have won the final if Mark Loram hadn't got the second place he needed in the consolation final?)

Secondly for his astonishing performance in the 2005 series. 6 wins, one 2nd and a 3rd from 9 rounds.

In league racing however, it's got to be Hans Nielsen. He was just a points machine!

Tony would have won the 2000 World Championship (I think) if it wasn't for 2 crashes. 

Final starts at 1.00.00 with Mark Loram.

Heat 19 starts at 20.00 with Danno.

 

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14 minutes ago, sparks123 said:

Tony would have won the 2000 World Championship (I think) if it wasn't for 2 crashes. 

Final starts at 1.00.00 with Mark Loram.

Heat 19 starts at 20.00 with Danno.

 

That was a terrible decision to exclude Tony in Sweden after Mark clearly knocked him off.(I would add that that I don't believe it was deliberate, as Mark wasn't that kind of rider. He just misjudged the pass.)

The second incident with Stefan Danno I believe could have gone either way. Rickardsson did seem out of control when Sullivan passed him and Danno did keep to his line.

Loram admitted he was a bit lucky that year, with Tony a little below his brilliant best.

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Just now, Terry said:

That was a terrible decision to exclude Tony in Sweden after Mark clearly knocked him off.(I would add that that I don't believe it was deliberate, as Mark wasn't that kind of rider. He just misjudged the pass.)

Of course it wasn't deliberate, but that was one of the worst decisions I have ever seen. The problem is that there are always so many "ifs", but sadly, "ifs" never make it into the history books...

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33 minutes ago, norbold said:

It is fun of course and I love doing it as much as anyone, but it really is an impossible job. The more time goes on the more older greats are forgotten. What the "greatest" really means for most people  is the greatest you have experience of. How many these days would put Vic Huxley or Frank Arthur in their top 10?

Actually (not that this would surprise you), but Huxley is one I always include in my list of "elite" riders, along with Vic Duggan...

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