norbold 7,110 Posted December 27, 2008 The weight of evidence for evolution of speedway is overwhelming. There has, of course, be refinements, but the basic idea is sound in the same way that gravity is. Regards. :lol: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Custom House Kid 45 Posted December 27, 2008 (edited) I think it is reasonable to say that the sort of racing seen on that video was happening in a lot of countries around the world at the time.There are references to motorbike racing on dirt horse trotting tracks for instance in Ireland and in Germany years before this meeting took place.Just look at the clip of the sidecars in the German snow and you can see that this sort of thing was going on all over the place.I have even seen a snippet about motorbike racing on ice in Russia in about 1922 or 1923. On this Austrian motorbike website you can find that the first "sandtrack" meeting(Austria) was in 1911 in Baden near Vienna. Austrian motorbike And in Salzburg in 1925 there was their first meeting(1000m) on a horse trotting track 1925 Intersting that in this meeting there was also a woman rider,Fraulein Fanny And a link to the sport of horse trotting or whatever it is called.Which allowed motorbikes to run on their tracks Trabrenn I think horse trotting tracks of 1000M plus, bear little resembelace of the speedway we know of today. However, I believe the 1st Loose surface Motor cycle race took place in South Africa at Pietermaritzburgh in Natal in 1907. I am of course here to be shot down in flames! Edited December 27, 2008 by Custom House Kid Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iris123 20,988 Posted December 27, 2008 (edited) I think horse trotting tracks of 1000M plus, bear little resembelace of the speedway we know of today. However, I believe the 1st Loose surface Motor cycle race took place in South Africa at Pietermaritzburgh in Natal in 1907. I am of course here to be shot down in flames! Well they would be the early development that went into Longtrack/Sandtrack,but also speedway.I believe the early tracks in Australia and the US were also quite big tracks.I think,but again maybe wrong,it was only the size of the available stadia in Britain that determined how big the tracks were.I don't really think at the early development stage that the size was that important.Rather the shape and surface.At that stage for instance they didn't have special bikes for the big tracks.I think they just rode the same bikes on any track in the early days.Even one of the most famous speedway meetings going,the Czech Golden Helmet was raced on a very long track with a large number of riders in each heat.Not sure if the early days are classed as longtrack and then later speedway Look at the Maitland track and it was much bigger than British tracks(though not 1,000m) and also a horse trotting track.Here Edited December 27, 2008 by iris123 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nigel 38 Posted December 29, 2008 (edited) Regarding old films ...... there is more than one film which has recorded the action at High Beech in early 1928 also filmed were Greenford and Blackpool, both were trotting tracks. Blackpool ran racing clockwise for the first couple of meetings. The first Speedway film with sound was recorded at Stamford Bridge 1928/29? I would discount the South African meeting as being the first. The first recorded meeting in America (so far found) was in 1901 'The Old Agricultural park' trotting track Los Angeles California and was in use for over a decade. Trotting was very popular in the late 1800s and just about every country had tracks. The American motor cycle companies were very keen on racing... had dealerships around the world, so events in America soon reach the ears of the rest of the world. I have evidence of dirt track racing on trotting tracks in Italy 1911 and I’ve no doubt there were earlier events. I am pretty sure that motorcycle racing was happening from the earliest times in just about every country that had a trotting track. Who was the first broadsider, well ….. On the evidence that I have (until someone proves otherwise) I believe the Honor goes to an American who was the son of a Welsh emigrant farmer…… Donald ‘Don’ Johns who was broadsiding before 1914. Americans Maldwyn Jones, Ed Brink and Cecil Brown have been given credit as some of the earliest broadsiders. It is said that Brink and Brown taught the Australians how to broadside during their visit to Oz in the 1920s American trotting tracks where usually half or 1 mile long. In my View.. speedway evolved from American dirt track racing on trotting Tracks Edited December 29, 2008 by Nigel Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
norbold 7,110 Posted December 30, 2008 Who was the first broadsider, well ….. On the evidence that I have (until someone proves otherwise) I believe the Honor goes to an American who was the son of a Welsh emigrant farmer…… Donald ‘Don’ Johns who was broadsiding before 1914. Americans Maldwyn Jones, Ed Brink and Cecil Brown have been given credit as some of the earliest broadsiders. It is said that Brink and Brown taught the Australians how to broadside during their visit to Oz in the 1920s American trotting tracks where usually half or 1 mile long. In my View.. speedway evolved from American dirt track racing on trotting Tracks Yes, I agree Nigel. But don't forget Albert "Shrimp" Burns (if only for his name) who was also sliding his bike around American dirt tracks before the First World War. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iris123 20,988 Posted December 26, 2019 On 12/20/2008 at 11:31 AM, norbold said: Who knows, Trackman, who knows? It all depends on your definition of speedway. The other thing about the first meeting at High Beech was that the bikes were still fitted with brakes. As far as I'm concerned I believe the first proper speedway meeting in Great Britain was either the second or third meeting at High Beech on 7 and 9 April 1928. "Motor Cycle" magazine says that the meeting on 9 April was the first time broadsiding was seen in this country with Digger Pugh, Colin Watson and Alf Medcalf doing the honours. The track on 9 April was also described as having a loose dirt surface, built under the direction of the great Australian promoter, A J Hunting, which the first meeting did not have, nor did the meeting at Droylsden on 25 June 1927, also said by some to be the first speedway meeting in this country. Although the 9 April meeting is described as the first to feature broadsiding, I presume that the meeting on 7 April used the same loose dirt track. What I'm even more unsure about is whether bikes were still fitted with brakes at this point. It seems unlikely, what with A J Hunting, loose dirt and broadsiding, but I have found no mention of them either way. The first meeting at Greenford was also held on 7 April 1928, but with no broadsiding as far as I can tell. At the meeting the following week, 14 April, the New Zealander, Stewie St George, gave a display of broadsiding, "He laid his Duggie over at impossible angles with the rear wheel slewing right round." Billy Galloway also gave a display of broadsiding as did a young English rider, Les Blakeborough. By the time, Britain got round to "proper" speedway" the Americans and Australians had been at it for years. The first reports of broadsiding go back to before the First World War in America with a man named Don Johns. R. M. Sammy Samuels, one time editor of 'Motor Cycling' and 'Speedway News' and manager of an Indian motorcycle agency in London went to the USA in 1911 where he says he witnessed 'Dirt Track Racing'. Years later he commented that Johnnie Hoskins had only reinvented an old idea. Speedway did not suddenly appear overnight, as Johnnie Hoskins would have us all believe. It came about through a long process of evolution that probably started even before 1911. There are reports of oval track racing in South Africa and Ipswich before that, though neither could be called speedway as we know it. I don't think we will ever be able to point to a particular meeting and say "That's when speedway started." (My thanks to Nigel for some of the information in the above.) On 12/22/2008 at 2:18 AM, Parsloes 1928 nearly said: 'Speedway' is, though, a 'trade name' as in "International Speedways", who promoted dirt track racing in some of the nations top stadia from 1928 onwards. IMHO, what happened at High Beech and Droylsden and Greenford was various types of dirt track motorcycle racing. It was only when floodlight, city centre stadia started staging the sport that it became "Speedway". Ironically, there are so few of such venues left that it may be that by the time we get to the 90th. anniversary of High Beech we will be more or less back to the "dirt track racing" model we stated with... On 12/22/2008 at 3:52 PM, TwoMinuteWarning said: The sports first magazine in May 1928 was called "Speedway News", but no one called the sport speedway, it was still dirt-track racing, or "dracing" The word speedway referred to the stadium or track, and had been so in the USA for many years. It was late 1929 before the sport was started to be referrred to as speedway racing, though I've seen provincial newspapers as late as 1938 still calling it Dirt-Track Racing! Certainly couldn't call it that today, they'd be prosecuted under the Trades Description Act ... It is interesting on this subject to note that an Australian newspaper on 21st February 1928 had the headline Speedway in Britain The Australians Keith McKay and 'Billy' Galloway helped to organise and participate in, a successful first cinders track motorcycle race meeting in Britain at Loughton (Essex), today(19thFeb). The attendance numbered 10,000 from London and the Home Counties. A thrilling exhibition of daring and skilful riding was given 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iris123 20,988 Posted December 27, 2019 (edited) Further items on Keith McKay. An item from 29.12.1928 Interesting facts concerning dirt-track racing on the Continent were related by Mr. Keith McKay, who with Mr. G.S.Meredith introduced that sport to Europe. He is a Sydney man and is returning there on the Orama. In company with 13 motorcyclists from Australia and New Zealand, the two men left for England at the end of last year. Mr McKay estimates his profits from dirt-track racing alone during the year amounted to 3,600 pounds. When the little band of dirt track racers first arrived in England a company was formed with a capital of 24,000 pounds...............once the success of the sport had been firmly established in England, Mr McKay sold his interest in the company and has since been riding under short contracts in Europe. He ended the season in Copenhagen, where , he said , in spite of intense cold, there were regular attendances of 30,000. Next season dirt-track racing will be introduced into Barcelona and Cannes. Mr McKay himself is under contract to Mr Tex Richard, the famous boxing promoter to appear in New York at the Madison Square Garden on March 15th for a period of 6 weeks. He will appear in Copenhagen for the last week in May, and will afterwards journey to London, Brussels and Paris. He remarked that no Australian rider had made less than 2,000 gbp during the season And on 07.02.1929 the sad news of his death It was with much regret that Delegate people heard of the death of Mr. Keith McKay, which took place in Sydney on February 1. An old Delegate district boy, Keith was well known to all old residents. He had a pleasant personality and was very popular. He was having a holiday in Australia, and intended to take his wife and two children with him to England on his return. On the day of his burial a cable was received from London asking him to return immediately. We take the following from the Daily Guardian of February 2 Keith McKay, well known in local motor and motorcycling circles died in St. Vincent's private hospital yesterday as a result of a crash at speedway royal at Xmas time. The deceased was connected with T.D Chapman Ltd and the late A.V. Turner for several years and became interested in motorcycle racing about 3 years ago. He competed with a fair amount of success in Sydney, Brisbane and Adelaide. Together with the late Geoff Meredith, he took a team of Australian riders to England last year, and was partly responsible for the boom in dirt track racing there. When his partner died, he carried on alone, but came home before Xmas for several weeks holiday Competing at the Speedway Royal on December 22 he crashed heavily into a post, as a resut of which a leg was amputated . Blood poisoning set in, and although he fought gamely for his life for over a month, he started to sink about a week ago, and passed out yesterday. Only 26 years of age, the late Keith McKay was popular with all whom he came in contact with and will be greatly missed Another interesting article from 24.06.1927 states he is contemplating a trip to South Africa having considerable experience in motorcycle and light car racing. Having left home at age 16 he went to the US and got a job in a motor factory and mamanged to have a fair amount of success in motorcycle racing at Sheepshead Bay track. Then he started as a car racer and had some success in South America .Then had a win on a track in France then took up road racing, which was considerably more difficult, but for 4 seasons had numerous wins. In 1925 he had a bad smash after competing in Italy, Spain and even Le Mans !!! The he returned to Australia and Adelaide where he was popular with the motorcyclists at the speedway Edited December 27, 2019 by iris123 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iris123 20,988 Posted February 22 Have we had this before on here ? I can't remember. And maybe it ties in with the above post about Keith McKay ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BOBBATH 467 Posted March 21 In his response Trackman used the word "Cobber" -do our Aussie mates still use that word or has it been retired (like me)!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
