Idea For Sgp / World Final

[pugwash 3,208]

A one off World Final held on the day would obviously be very exciting. But that's it, as far as marketing goes a series held over 6 months is far more marketable and I'm sorry but that's business. If the GP series were to fail due to the current financial crisis, IMG would no doubt be staging a one off Final or some similar event but when business picks up it would be back to the series, I'm sure.

You can't get away from the fact that the GP series is popular amongst a lot of fans. People enjoy the travel and the opportunity to meet up with fans that they otherwise wouldn't meet. I'm one for sure and I've made many good friends on my many European trips, Henry W being one.

Saying that I think that there is a window in the year for a big one off Final. The promoters could take the final $200,000 event out of the series and move it to summer about the same time as the WC. Call it say "World Masters" or some such title and have a differant qualifying system so we wouldn't necessarily see all the same riders as the GP series. With $100k up for the winner it would be very marketable and wouldn't detract from the GP series.

Trouble is with the GP series running the worlds top riders would still be shunning the UK leagues and for some people that's a big problem.

If I remember rightly Kerry Packer's cricket world circus took all the best players from the Test match scene but a crop of great players got the chance to come through, I hope that's what's going to happen in speedway.

[lucifer sam 3,960]

When did Egon Muller win anything at the top level of speedway outside of his own country?

 

Egon Muller:

World Champion 1983

7 x World Finalist in the years spanning 1976-1985 (Havelock's final appearances spanned only 1992-1996)

Four times Continental Champion (a semi-final of the World Championship - often derided, but remember it supplied two World Champions and a whole lost of riders who finished on the World Final rostrum) (Havelock never won a World semi-final)

National champion on at least five ocassions (Havelock only won the British Final twice)

Plus all his Longtrack exploits (Havelock never achieved anything in this sphere)

 

All-in-all, a much more impressive list than that of Gary Havelock.

 

All the best

Rob

Edited December 30, 2008 by lucifer sam

[Thischarmingman 18]

Egon Muller:

World Champion 1983

7 x World Finalist in the years spanning 1976-1985 (Havelock's final appearances spanned only 1992-1996)

Four times Continental Champion (a semi-final of the World Championship - often derided, but remember it supplied two World Champions and a whole lost of riders who finished on the World Final rostrum) (Havelock never won a World semi-final)

National champion on at least five ocassions (Havelock only won the British Final twice)

Plus all his Longtrack exploits (Havelock never achieved anything in this sphere)

 

All-in-all, a much more impressive list than that of Gary Havelock.

 

All the best

Rob

 

I'm at work just now so only have a brief chance to reply, but your choice of achievements is interesting. From my recollections of the 'old days', the Continental route was always a far easier route to the World Final than the IntetrContinental.

 

I've no doubt Muller had far greater resources at his disposal in those days than just about any other rider, especially of course the Poles etc. at that time. While I'm not particularly belittling what he achieved (and that is a good number of World Finals qualified for), I would doubt he would have got anywhere near that had it been a more level qualifying system. Luck of the draw though, those were the times and he didn't have to beat the Brits, Swedes, Danes or Americans. Not a great deal of strong nations left are there?

 

Continental champion x 4 - not really a big deal is it?. Only have to read the autboigraphies of the likes of Simmons or Morton to realise that Continental/InterContintal/Overseas were all about getting through, nobody was bothered about winning.

 

National champion - Only won it 5 times?! No idea about the strength in depth of German speedway back then, but it would be a stretch to think there was all that much competition.

 

Longtrack - I thought we were comparing Speedway achievements, not other disciplines such as long track.

 

 

 

 

[lucifer sam 3,960]

Continental champion x 4 - not really a big deal is it?

 

So winning a semi-final of the World Championship is not a big deal?

 

Let's have a look at some of the riders to have qualified to the World Final via the Continental route:

1964 - Igor Plechanov (2nd in World Final)

1965 - Igor Plechanov (2nd)

1966 - Antoni Woryna (3rd)

1968 - Edward Jancarz (3rd)

1970 - Pawel Waloszek (2nd), Antoni Woryna (3rd)

1973 - Jerzy Szczakiel (WORLD CHAMPION), Zenon Plech (3rd)

1979 - Zenon Plech (2nd)

1983 - Egon Muller (WORLD CHAMPION)

 

Add in the likes of Viktor Kuznetsov, Jerzy Rembas, Grigori Khliniovski, Vladimir Gordeev and Boris Samorodov, who also all performed very well in World Finals.

 

And then add quality such as Jiri Stancl, Andrzej Wyglenda, Karl Maier, Gerd Riss, Armando Castagna, Zoltan Adorjan, etc.

 

I think winning the Continental Final on no fewer than four ocassions is a very big deal.

 

Egon Muller is a far better rider than the majority of British fans give him credit for. And remember how well he performed on unfamiliar tracks and unfamiliar machinery in his very short spell for Hull, his only British club.

 

He is a far better rider than Gary Havelock, who was, with all respect, a one-season wonder.

 

All the best

Rob

[Parsloes 1928 nearly 495]

And my fav...: Victor Trofimov!!!!!

[iris123 21,092]

I agree Rob.Egon was far better than most give him credit for.And he achieved all that without really concentrating on speedway like most of his rivals.Plus to go to the likes of Leningrad and win was no easy task back then

[Thischarmingman 18]

So winning a semi-final of the World Championship is not a big deal?

 

Let's have a look at some of the riders to have qualified to the World Final via the Continental route:

1964 - Igor Plechanov (2nd in World Final)

1965 - Igor Plechanov (2nd)

1966 - Antoni Woryna (3rd)

1968 - Edward Jancarz (3rd)

1970 - Pawel Waloszek (2nd), Antoni Woryna (3rd)

1973 - Jerzy Szczakiel (WORLD CHAMPION), Zenon Plech (3rd)

1979 - Zenon Plech (2nd)

1983 - Egon Muller (WORLD CHAMPION)

 

Add in the likes of Viktor Kuznetsov, Jerzy Rembas, Grigori Khliniovski, Vladimir Gordeev and Boris Samorodov, who also all performed very well in World Finals.

 

And then add quality such as Jiri Stancl, Andrzej Wyglenda, Karl Maier, Gerd Riss, Armando Castagna, Zoltan Adorjan, etc.

 

I think winning the Continental Final on no fewer than four ocassions is a very big deal.

 

Egon Muller is a far better rider than the majority of British fans give him credit for. And remember how well he performed on unfamiliar tracks and unfamiliar machinery in his very short spell for Hull, his only British club.

 

He is a far better rider than Gary Havelock, who was, with all respect, a one-season wonder.

 

All the best

Rob

 

'A very big deal' to win a WC qualifier 4 times? Unless there was extra cash for doing so, I'd be hard pushed to believe they cared that much. You can believe it though, sure you won't change your mind.

 

Kind of going nowhere this, but will finish up by pointing out that the list of rostrum placings from the Continental route that you have posted really defeats your own argument. I've checked the list of rostrum placings over that 20 year period just now and I think you have listed every single rostrum place from the Continental route between 1964 and 1983.

 

That makes it 10 rostrum placings out of 60 over a 20 year period. And after 1983 not a single rostrum placing until it ended. Not that many really, and doesn't add great weight to the argument that it was so difficult (in relation to the Inter Continental route).

 

As Henry W has pointed out, Gary Havelock won his in Poland on a track that was never his home track, whereas Muller won his in what was effectively his own back yard. If you think Muller would ever been world champion had they not held a final in Germany then you only need to look at his best of 7th in 6 other appearances to get the answer to that - no chance.

 

Anyway, Egon Muller very good speedway rider, agreed.

[Humphrey Appleby 13,977]

But that's it, as far as marketing goes a series held over 6 months is far more marketable

 

But is it? I don't think the current bunch of dwindling sponsors are especially better than the sponsors of the old World Final. You can perhaps point to television, but the value of those contracts seem to be falling, and what's to say the World and qualifying rounds won't get similar coverage in this day-and-age where there's lots of airtime to fill?

 

You can't get away from the fact that the GP series is popular amongst a lot of fans.

 

It's popular with certain fans, but others largely lost interest after the SGP came in. I made the point to go the World Final most years, but with a GP every couple of weeks, it just didn't have the same appeal.

 

Trouble is with the GP series running the worlds top riders would still be shunning the UK leagues and for some people that's a big problem.

 

We shall see. The SGP doesn't pay anything like a living wage, and seems to have no prospect of doing so, so it'll be interesting to see what gets priority if the likes of Poland and Sweden start getting selective about who they can afford.

 

[Humphrey Appleby 13,977]

As Henry W has pointed out, Gary Havelock won his in Poland on a track that was never his home track

 

Few about disagree that Havelock had an exceptionally good season in 1992, but he was not in the same league as any of the World Champions I can remember. Muller I don't know about, because he hardly ever rode in Britain, and I was not watching continental speedway when he was at his peak.

 

[mickthemuppet 976]

Having been to both one off world finals and Grand Prix home and abroad, there was nothing like the one off world finals for excitement. How can you compare a Individual World Final at Wembley with a GP at Gelschenkirchen or Vojens

I personally think the GP's in their present form only have a limited shelf life left in them. What is the point going to a GP when the world championship has already been decided. Attendences are falling at the GP's and will fall further still this season. How many actually made a profit last season.

[Blazeaway 1,501]

Having been to both one off world finals and Grand Prix home and abroad, there was nothing like the one off world finals for excitement. How can you compare a Individual World Final at Wembley with a GP at Gelschenkirchen or Vojens

I personally think the GP's in their present form only have a limited shelf life left in them. What is the point going to a GP when the world championship has already been decided. Attendences are falling at the GP's and will fall further still this season. How many actually made a profit last season.

 

 

Wrong.

[Parsloes 1928 nearly 495]

Having been to both one off world finals and Grand Prix home and abroad, there was nothing like the one off world finals for excitement. How can you compare a Individual World Final at Wembley with a GP at Gelschenkirchen or Vojens

I personally think the GP's in their present form only have a limited shelf life left in them. What is the point going to a GP when the world championship has already been decided. Attendences are falling at the GP's and will fall further still this season. How many actually made a profit last season.

 

Spot on...

Sport is meant to be about entertainment and excitement isn't it..?

That's from the spectator point of view..

 

As a test of competitors too, the highest level of sport is all about rising to the challenge of a massively pressurised competition.. Take for example the Olympics track and field...: no second chances there..!

 

The GP is significantly easier from that point of view...: mess up one race, several races...: never mind..: plenty of time to recover in future Rounds..

 

The World Final was the ULTIMATE test and was also massively tense and exciting. And that applied whether in a "field" in Germany or in the world's most famous stadium (Wembley). Thankfully the huge majority of the one-off Finals were in superb stadia (Wembley, Ullevi, Katowice etc.) rather than the oft-mentioned Nordens of this world...

[lucifer sam 3,960]

Wrong.

 

Why had only 4,000 tickets be sold for Gelsenkirchen, then?

 

All the best

Rob

 

[iris123 21,092]

Why had only 4,000 tickets be sold for Gelsenkirchen, then?

 

All the best

Rob

That is only 1 GP.It wasn't particularly well attended the year before.The problem with Gelsenkirchen is,it isn't in the right place.Not saying a German GP would ever be that popular.But if it was somewhere like Hamburg or even Rostok it should be reasonably well attended.Being actually in "speedway country" as such,up here in the north.And close to Scandinavia and Rostok isn't that far from Poland either.But neither stadium have a roof

But there still does seem to be clubs/stadia that are clamouring to host a GP,so there must be something in it for them.Look at the number of Polish clubs that want to host a GP.I think Gorican are waiting to host the GPs and Togliatti also.Plus Vojens is being upgraded since last year,continuously.It might get slated here,but look at the attendances over the last couple of years,since the Danes are back on top.

[lucifer sam 3,960]

That is only 1 GP.It wasn't particularly well attended the year before.The problem with Gelsenkirchen is,it isn't in the right place.Not saying a German GP would ever be that popular.But if it was somewhere like Hamburg or even Rostok it should be reasonably well attended.Being actually in "speedway country" as such,up here in the north.And close to Scandinavia and Rostok isn't that far from Poland either.But neither stadium have a roof

But there still does seem to be clubs/stadia that are clamouring to host a GP,so there must be something in it for them.Look at the number of Polish clubs that want to host a GP.I think Gorican are waiting to host the GPs and Togliatti also.Plus Vojens is being upgraded since last year,continuously.It might get slated here,but look at the attendances over the last couple of years,since the Danes are back on top.

 

Iris, it's maybe "only 1 GP", but significantly it's the most recent.

 

And since the farce of Gelsenkirchen and the following whitewash by BSI with the likes of Ole Olsen having escaped without reprimand, who can travel abroad to a GP meeting with any confidence? It will still be Olsen buggering up these tracks.

 

I suggest GP attendances figures will be down in 2009 for three reasons:

1. The credit crunch

2. Gelsenkirchen 2008

3. People are getting bored of the GP series

 

All the best

Rob