TonyMac 720 Posted November 19, 2003 It's a tricky argument - one-off World Final v GP - but in a way I'm glad for Ivan Mauger that Tony Rickardsson didn't manage to emulate his record six individual title wins this year. Nothing against Tony, of coyrse, who is a great champion in his own right. It's just that Mauger deserves to continue to reign supreme in history. Had the GP series been in place years earlier he would doubtless have been crowned champion almost every year throughout the 70s, as well as the last two years of the previous decade. Oh, what have I said? OK, PC would have taken some beating in 1976 & '77, had the GP applied then but could he have quite matched Ivan's incredible consistency. Blimey, though, remember when PC courageously ignored his terrible leg injury to race in the wet at Gothenburgh in '77? What an effort that was. I suppose the Ole Olsen fans will be on my case now, too... Why did I start this argument? No, I'm sticking with Ivan. He would have won at least 8 titles under the GP format, but I can't see Tony adding three more to his impressive haul - not now that Pedersen has broken through and Jason Crump, Ryan Sullivan and Leigh Adams are also on the charge... Well, what do you think???? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevehone 3,429 Posted November 19, 2003 this caused quite a debate when we had it before but i am with you... also if Ivan hadn't won his first world title aged nearly 29 who knows..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shazzybird 10 Posted November 20, 2003 As the one off meeting for the world title no longer exist Ivan Maugers' record cannot be broken, therefore he will always have the crown for his record number of World Championship titles until this event is resurrected, if ever it is TRick on the other hand has set a new record for the GP series World Championship title. I've read this and read this, I understand it I think then again maybe I've not worded it right but hey I know what I meant Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crazysue 613 Posted November 20, 2003 We must be on the same wavelength, because I understand what you mean...and I agree. You cannot compare the two because they won their world titles under two completely different set ups. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shazzybird 10 Posted November 20, 2003 Thanks CS that's exactly what I meant, just went around the houses explaining it Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff. 2 Posted November 20, 2003 Ivan's record is 6 "world titles", Rickardsson currently has 5 "world titles" to his name. Should Rickarddson win another he will equal Ivan, 2 more and he will better it. The format is totally irrelevent for the purpose of deciding who was world champion the most times, it isn't a matter of personal opinion, it is fact laid out in black and white. As for who would have won more given different formats now that is a matter of opinion, I would guess Ivan would have maybe won a couple more early to mid seventies under a GP format but then again I doubt he would have won in 1977 or 1979 under a GP format. Six is probably a fair reflection of how he would probably have faired under any format. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shazzybird 10 Posted November 20, 2003 Ivan's record is 6 "world titles" He actually has more than 6 "World Titles" as reported in a newpaper in NZ a couple of weeks back he has at least 10 "World Titles" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevehone 3,429 Posted November 20, 2003 6 individual 3 longtrack 1 wtc maybe??? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Custom House Kid 45 Posted November 20, 2003 (edited) this caused quite a debate when we had it before but i am with you... also if Ivan hadn't won his first world title aged nearly 29 who knows..... Woulda,shooda,couda, if only ! bring it on jblanch69 Edited November 20, 2003 by Custom House Kid Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fatface 2,554 Posted November 20, 2003 Based on pure ability on a speedway machine, I'd go for Tony any day of the week. The guy can gate, overtake (inside/outside), he's fast, he's hard - he's just got it all. Mauger's outstanding talent was his ability to gate under pressure. That is what won him World Titles in years in which he really wasn't the best on the planet (72, 77, 79). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest wes lake Posted November 20, 2003 There is no argument here Tony is far superior rider wise, Ivan was a master at trapping but from the back was nowhere near as good as Tony,although Ivan was a fantastic rider in his day and has six ind titals, for sheer riding ability and guts it has to be Tony for all round ability. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jez 4 Posted November 20, 2003 I dont think you can compare the two riders at all. Two totally different era's of speedway with different rules, machines etc. Only think you can compare riders who have ridden at the same time where there is stability in rules, tracks, machines etc. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sandman 0 Posted November 21, 2003 Hey Wes, dont take it personal, but think you are totally wrong. Tony has the make up to be as great, but Mauger was the original hard case psyco, tempered with extremely high intelligence and determination. Until Tony, all due respect, knows what it is like to clean the showers out at a speedway track for the chance for a second half ride, and then become multi champ thru determination without a lot of natural ability, then i will agree, so until then, shoot, get outta town! Go get in the truck! All of this is said with greatest due respect to the great Swede. Weslakes were underpowered dude, but i will admit it is rumoured they had good torque.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fatface 2,554 Posted November 21, 2003 Tony has the make up to be as great, but Mauger was the original hard case psyco, tempered with extremely high intelligence and determination. Until Tony, all due respect, knows what it is like to clean the showers out at a speedway track for the chance for a second half ride, and then become multi champ thru determination without a lot of natural ability, then i will agree, so until then, shoot, get outta town! There seeems to be this assumption that Tony came to England with a silver spoon in his mouth. I remember him first arriving here to ride for Ipswich as a young 18/19 year old, he wasn't the best in the world straight away, he battled away and eventually established himself. Just because it took Mauger a lot longer to make it shouldn't reflect badly on Rickardson. If anything it points to the opposite - Tony made it quicker because he was more talented. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shazzybird 10 Posted November 21, 2003 Sorry falcace, I didn't think about how they became world champions when I posted, I was just commenting on the fact that they both within their rights of being World Title record holders. Jez I think hit the nail on the head when he said : "I dont think you can compare the two riders at all. Two totally different era's of speedway with different rules, machines etc. Only think you can compare riders who have ridden at the same time where there is stability in rules, tracks, machines etc." Both Ivan Mauger and Tony Rickardsson are Champions. Michael Lee was my absolute hero as a kid (next to Uncle Ted and Kelvin Mullarkey of course ) but Hans Nielsen ............. pure class. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
