Maitland Speedway Anniversary

[kennylane 3]

The major argument against speedway originating on 15 December 1923 at Maitland is the Monday December 17, 1923 Maitland Daily Mercury's report on the Saturday December 15 carnival, which says: -

 

"For the first time motor cycle racing was introduced into the programme and the innovation proved most successful. In an exhibition ride at the last sports several riders gave the track a good test and they then expressed themselves satisfied with it. They also stated that it was better than several other tracks that have been used for this kind of sport on a number of occasions..."

 

Note the last sentence particularly. Maitland’s own paper did not see the meeting on 15 December as anything new. The riders themselves were comparing Maitland to “several other tracks”

 

Even without going in to the developments in the USA stretching back to before the First World War and just taking Australia, the fact is that there are many reports of meetings similar to that put on by Hoskins prior to 1923 in places such as Townsville (as early as 1916), Rockhampton and Newcastle. Eleven months prior to the Maitland December 1923 carnival, which, incidentally, was held on a grass track, motor cycles had raced on a cinder circuit under lights at Adelaide’s Thebarton Oval.

 

It is true that what Maitland gave the sport of speedway was continuity by providing speedway on a regular basis as between 15 December 1923 and 26 April 1924 there were no fewer than 15 carnival meetings featuring motor cycle racing, with promoters Campbell and DuFrocq staging six of them and including a rider by the name of Charlie Datson who was to become one of the leading pioneers of the new sport of speedway.

 

But the meeting on 17 December was nothing new. It was not the ORIGIN of speedway.

 

A strong case on your part Norbold but equally so the FIM post must also have credence. The FIM is the official voice of affiliated motorcycle sport and must surely have checked their view on the start of speedway at Maitland.

And the message 14 re Maitland 1923 and Brisbane i 1927 also gives Australian support to speedway/s birth at Maitland on December 15 1923. I take it you did click in to read them?

[BigFatDave 258]

Sadly our amateur historian wears blinkers when it comes to reading anything that proves he's wrong, kennylane.

[kennylane 3]

A strong case on your part Norbold but equally so the FIM post must also have credence. The FIM is the official voice of affiliated motorcycle sport and must surely have checked their view on the start of speedway at Maitland.

And the message 14 re Maitland 1923 and Brisbane i 1927 also gives Australian support to speedway/s birth at Maitland on December 15 1923. I take it you did click in to read them?

May I add this to an interesting debate. Note the reference to Johnnie Hoskins and Maitland 1923:

 

 

http://groups.yahoo....ount=20&dir=asc

http://groups.yahoo....tart=21&dir=asc

These two items have been posted in the Early Days Beginnings photo album. Primarily they deal with AJ Hunting at Brisbane in 1927, but of significance there is also mention of Johnnie Hoskins at Maitland in December 1923. Both references mention “the start of speedway.”

Here is the text of Tony Webb’s original email to me:

 

On 15 Mar 2012, at 00:42, Tony Webb wrote:

There is an interesting article in this new book which credits Johnny Hoskins with Maitland and A J Hunting refining it as a sport and taking it worldwide!

``

150 Stories' to celebrate Brisbane

 

A new book '150 Stories' is being launched to help Brisbane celebrate its 150th birthday with tales of the city's history. This is not just another history book. It’s 150 vivid snapshots of our city across the 19th, 20th and 21st Centuries,

 

’’ Cr Newman said.``It’s a book dedicated to the people and stories that have made up Brisbane’s history. By focusing on the people, it’s a unique and personal look at our city.’‘

 

Brisbane 150 Stories covers well-known events such as the Brisbane riot of 1866 and the 1974 floods to obscure tales like the escaped tiger rampage on Queen St in 1888. It traces the rise of popular culture such as the city’s prominence as a music hotbed in the ‘70s and the creation of the Brisbane Lions AFL team.

 

Even long-term Brisbane residents will learn new things about their city through the book - iconic dance venue Cloudland was originally intended as a larger Luna Park attraction.

 

Five writers authored the book, including Council historians Brian Rough, Carmel Black, Frank McBride and the late Helen Taylor with Heather Richardson.

 

Books retail at $44.95 and are available from selected retail outlets, the Museum of Brisbane and Brisbane City Council libraries and service centres.

 

<Hunting AJ.jpg><Hunting aj 1927.jpg>

 

The original source is at - http://sports.groups...ldtimespeedway/

Sadly our amateur historian wears blinkers when it comes to reading anything that proves he's wrong, kennylane.

 

Hi BFD: So you think Norbold doesn't read links when they come up on here? I also especially thought the one about Maitland 1923 and Brisbane 1927 was fairly specific. And personally I also found the previous FIM post quite interesting in regard to the start of speedway.

Edited March 16, 2012 by kennylane

[stratton 1,491]

Sadly our amateur historian wears blinkers when it comes to reading anything that proves he's wrong, kennylane.

I think BFD he is far from a amateur and certainly is not blinkered its only his opinion at the end of the day.Ive learned loads off him,since i have been reading regularly on the forum and for me thats what it is all about NO RIGHT or WRONG only debate.

[olddon 7]

Speedway Star, page 25, March 17, 2012 -

 

JOHNNIE HOSKINS, MBE

 

The father of speedway racing - or at least that's what history decrees, although there is some question as to whether he really did run the first-ever dirt-track meeting in the world.

 

JACK KEEN,

ERITH, KENT

[Humphrey Appleby 13,958]

How do you regard this comment from the FIM?

 

I very much doubt the FIM have employed a team of forensic historians to write a short summary piece for their website, which is very likely culled from existing, but not entirely accurate secondary sources. It's actually a fairly reasonable summary for the uninitiated, but an FIM press officer (with all due respect to Marc Petrier) responsible for the news output of all the FIM disciplines is unlikely to have trawled through old newspapers Down Under to ensure the facts are 100% accurate with respect to track racing.

[norbold 7,115]

Sadly our amateur historian wears blinkers when it comes to reading anything that proves he's wrong, kennylane.

An excellent thought provoking and well thought-out response to my reasons for saying why I do not believe Johnnie Hoskins invented speedway. I shall look into all the reasons you raise for disagreeing with my post and get back to you when I have had time to study your detailed post further.

[olddon 7]

How do you regard this comment from

 

How do you regard this comment from the FIM? http://www.fim-live....f-track-racing/

"The first vehicles created at the end of the 19th century were immediately put to run on roads or – if they existed – tracks. The first motorcycles were not very fast, but within a few years started to reach very high speeds. The idea of using an oval track or an athletic track around a football ground or even a horse track, came very early. Mentions made in California in 1902, in South Africa in 1907 or around a football ground in Ipswich (GBR) in 1904 are just a few of them.

 

"But the first event, with a real structure, is generally considered to be the one held in Australia in 1923. Australians took everything off the motorcycle which was not essential, in order to reduce weight, and put the bikes for racing on oval grounds. The first real record of a dirt track meeting was on Saturday 15 December 1923 in West Maitland. The event was organised by John Hoskins, who is generally considered as the “father” of speedway competition.

 

"Success came very fast, and within a couple of years other tracks were built in various cities all over Australia. News was sent from Australia to Great Britain and the idea came up to hold such an event there. It was first scheduled in November 1927 but permission was refused by the authorities. The event was finally staged on Sunday 19 February 1928 in High Beech."

Speedway Star, page 25, March 17, 2012 -

 

JOHNNIE HOSKINS, MBE

 

The father of speedway racing - or at least that's what history decrees, although there is some question as to whether he really did run the first-ever dirt-track meeting in the world.

 

JACK KEEN,

ERITH, KENT

I very much doubt the FIM have employed a team of forensic historians to write a short summary piece for their website, which is very likely culled from existing, but not entirely accurate secondary sources. It's actually a fairly reasonable summary for the uninitiated, but an FIM press officer (with all due respect to Marc Petrier) responsible for the news output of all the FIM disciplines is unlikely to have trawled through old newspapers Down Under to ensure the facts are 100% accurate with respect to track racing.

 

This looks like a 2-1 lead for Johnnie Hoskins supporters at the moment!

JACK KEEN,

ERITH, KENT

[kennylane 3]

Speedway Star, page 25, March 17, 2012 -

 

JOHNNIE HOSKINS, MBE

 

The father of speedway racing - or at least that's what history decrees, although there is some question as to whether he really did run the first-ever dirt-track meeting in the world.

 

JACK KEEN,

ERITH, KENT

 

 

Here’s the actual transcript of the item about Johnnie Hoskins in ‘Speedway Star’ Narch 17 2012 edition.

JOHNNIE HOSKINS, MBE

The father of speedway racing - or at least that's what history decrees, although there is some question as to whether he really did run the first-ever dirt track meeting in the world.

Certainly he was secretary of the Local Hunter River Agricultural and Horticultural Society when he decided to put on some motorcycle races as part of the annual show.

It was hardly a headline act and for the 1923 event on December 15, the poster bills had motor-cycling racing in the smallest print of all, overshadowed by the star act, Tom Handley's Famous Buck-jumping Show.

But the bikes caught the imagination of the locals and the shrewd and extrovert Hoskins, born in New Zealand in 1892, quickly latched on to the idea that it could be his key to the fortune jar.

He started running meetings every week, and before long was looking to widen his horizons beyond the small New South Wales community of West Maitland.

He, his wife Audrey and their son Ian, sold their few belongings, left their rented house and journeyed down to Newcastle where he audaciously ran his own World Championship.

He lost his shirt in Sydney, travelled over to Perth, where his share of the first gate at Claremont was the princely sum of £750 (£35,000 in today's world).

Johnnie was never short of coming forward and was a one man publicity machine and it was swiftly accepted that he had invented speedway racing.

He was much in demand and set sail from Australia bound for the UK knowing he was wanted to take over the management of ten tracks.

[iris123 20,990]

None of this moves the debate forward though.Just yet again,Hoskins said he invented speedway and people accepted it.But we already have seen that not everyone accepted it back in the 30s and not everyone accepts it today.So..........

[norbold 7,115]

Sadly our amateur historian wears blinkers when it comes to reading anything that proves he's wrong, kennylane.

Incidentally, while I'm considering a response to your earlier detailed forensic dissection of my post I wonder if you could define "amateur historian". As you know I worked at The British Museum for 37 years and have had 23 history books published. I'd be interested in your definition of "amateur" in this context and whether you consider yourself to be a professional historian.

This looks like a 2-1 lead for Johnnie Hoskins supporters at the moment!

JACK KEEN,

ERITH, KENT

Your score somehow seems to not count my post. So not biased at all then.....

Here’s the actual transcript of the item about Johnnie Hoskins in ‘Speedway Star’ Narch 17 2012 edition.

JOHNNIE HOSKINS, MBE

The father of speedway racing - or at least that's what history decrees, although there is some question as to whether he really did run the first-ever dirt track meeting in the world.

Peter Oakes doesn't seem to be as sure as some of you on here that Maitland was the first meeting. In fact the meeting was on grass and as we know there had been other dirt track meetings before.

 

He, his wife Audrey and their son Ian, sold their few belongings, left their rented house and journeyed down to Newcastle where he audaciously ran his own World Championship.

He lost his shirt in Sydney

Hoskins did not travel to Newcastle from Maitland. He went to Sydney first and then on to Newcastle, where he took up the position as secretary for an already well-established speedway. The reference to a World Championship is interesting as I have never come across that before. Perhaps you can expand on that kennylane. Do you have the contemporary references to it as they would be very interesting to see?

[Parsloes 1928 nearly 495]

Who was it though, I wonder, who first termed dirt-track motorcycle racing as 'Speedway'..? We all know there was dirt track motorcycle racing before Maitland '23 (not least in the USA) but as far as I know it certainly wasn't called Speedway until sometime later into the '20s... It wasn't when it started here in '28 (or even '27 - ANOTHER debate) but soon a company called International Speedways was calling the sport by the name we know and love it by to this day... Maybe our Johnnie has a claim to the styling of the sport rather than its pure origin..?

[iris123 20,990]

Who was it though, I wonder, who first termed dirt-track motorcycle racing as 'Speedway'..? We all know there was dirt track motorcycle racing before Maitland '23 (not least in the USA) but as far as I know it certainly wasn't called Speedway until sometime later into the '20s... It wasn't when it started here in '28 (or even '27 - ANOTHER debate) but soon a company called International Speedways was calling the sport by the name we know and love it by to this day... Maybe our Johnnie has a claim to the styling of the sport rather than its pure origin..?

I did provide a link to a newpaper article from the States from around 1912 or so(might have been earlier or a bit later,not got time to search)which described track racing as 'speedway racing'.This coming from their use of the term 'speedway' for their tracks.Think it might have been from Indianapolis.But there were cars and also bikes at the meeting.I would think it just came to be used as a term in the States and the terms were copied in Australia at first then Britain when the sport arrived,because in 1928 it was Crystal Palace Speedway.I tend to go with the idea that the sport was developed in the States and then furthered in Australia.Some of the bike companies were even producing racing bikes without brakes in the States and we know they were broadsiding there well before 1923.And they weren't at Maitland i think at first and did they have brakes at Maitland?(i can't remember if it is known...)

[olddon 7]

Here’s the actual transcript of the item about Johnnie Hoskins in ‘Speedway Star’ Narch 17 2012 edition.

JOHNNIE HOSKINS, MBE

The father of speedway racing - or at least that's what history decrees, although there is some question as to whether he really did run the first-ever dirt track meeting in the world.

Johnnie was never short of coming forward and was a one man publicity machine and it was swiftly accepted that he had invented speedway racing.

 

Edited in the quote are two important comments from the 'Speedway Star' article.

JACK KEEN,

ERITH, KENT

[iris123 20,990]

Edited in the quote are two important comments from the 'Speedway Star' article.

JACK KEEN,

ERITH, KENT

Very important.And also important to understand just what is being said.As we know it certainly wasn't universally 'accepted'.So who was it accepted by?Where they in a position to know anything about the origins?And did those people who were involved in any of the meetings before Hoskins came on the scene accept the fact?know that Hoskins was claiming to have invented it or given a chance to have their say on the subject?Did anyone for instance ever ask any of the early Americans?