lisa-colette 6,047 Posted October 7, 2012 Dream on Boycie hit a guy sitting on a speedway bike who was not expecting it, very brave .... Nicki would rip his arm off and hit him over the head with the soggy end Think you'll find Boycey already done it to Nicki at Eastbourne and Nicki didn't rip his arm off!! Not as hard as he hit Gollob though and think Nicki still had has helmet on... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AFCB Wildcat 1,362 Posted October 8, 2012 Nicki was in front and chose to ride the inside and Chris put his front wheel on the grass and got a load of drive he didn't expect/couldn't handle, it was rider error. The collision was not inevitable. But in my opinion Chris had little option other than to put his wheel on the grass as Nicki came across him and left him nowhere to go. There was only half a wheel in it as the entered the corner so i don't think he had time to back off. Yes I accept he picked up drive which caused the crash but feel that he was forced off the track which was the cause of the incident. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheReturn 1,724 Posted October 8, 2012 A lot of people are saying Holder only ran into Nicki, because Nicki leaned in on him, An explanation I don't accept, but even if that was correct, then Nicki should have been excluded as the cause of the stoppage, and my original point remains, the referee bottled it. All four back is the easy way out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lucifer sam 3,955 Posted October 8, 2012 So would people really like to see the World Championship settled by a refereeing decision, rather than through racing? It happened on the first bend, so bringing back all four riders is a valid decision. And the right one. Although if you pressed me to exclude a rider, I'd say Pedersen. He caused the incident by pushing Holder off the track. Holder did lose control, but because Nicki had shoved him onto the grass. All the best Rob 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shale Shaker 106 Posted October 8, 2012 I'm positive Pedersen had a plan as soon as he picked gate 2 outside Holder. What we saw was the result of his plan, and having executed it he milked the situation for all it was worth, including the handbags at the pit gate. The only problem for Pedersen was that Holder didn't get excluded as he had intended. Suppose the ref had excluded Holder, and Pedersen went on to nick the title through his pantomime act - would that then have been a fair result? 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mini Jack 51 Posted October 8, 2012 I'm positive Pedersen had a plan as soon as he picked gate 2 outside Holder. What we saw was the result of his plan, and having executed it he milked the situation for all it was worth, including the handbags at the pit gate. The only problem for Pedersen was that Holder didn't get excluded as he had intended. Suppose the ref had excluded Holder, and Pedersen went on to nick the title through his pantomime act - would that then have been a fair result? NP didn't pick gate 2, he got the gate that was left as he finished 8th in the standings. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dump that clutch 630 Posted October 8, 2012 Tell me BFD.... if NP was in red, and CH in blue, a total complete role reversal....would you be saying the same? If your answer is yes...you really need to look in a mirror. still waiting for an answer BFD.... a truthful one please. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shale Shaker 106 Posted October 8, 2012 NP didn't pick gate 2, he got the gate that was left as he finished 8th in the standings. Ok, I meant to say "had gate 2" rather than "picked gate 2". But as I said, I'm sure he had a plan - it seemed to me as though much of his reaction after the incident looked suspiciously rehearsed rather than spontaneous. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dump that clutch 630 Posted October 8, 2012 NO love lost between Ryan and Chris ... but you miss the point. It cannot have been as clear cut as you, and even Ryan suggest, because many people believe that Holder was not at fault and that it was a racing incident. Therefore the verdict was not one of absolute fact. It was a matter of opinion, seen in different ways by different people. There was an element of doubt, enough to persuade the referee to put all four back. It is pure supposition to say that a referee from a different country would have excluded Chris. You have absolutely no evidence to back that up. Craig is a top referee and made his decision on what he saw. Incidentally, it is not a decision based on 'first bend bunching.' It is 'an unsatisfactory start.' Also, a rider has to have both wheels over the curb to be excluded. If this was the case then, surely the red lights would have been on before the contact was made in the first corner... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PHILIPRISING 7,298 Posted October 8, 2012 DON'T agree. Sure Craig would have made the same decision, unsatisfactory start, all four back. At the post-GP Press Conference Nicki said that had he been on the inside he would have done exactly the same. Still believe that there was an ulterior motive behind some of his histrionics after hitting the dirt. Trees has a point about the Holder brothers but that doesn't alter the fact that they should not have been there. Not part of his pit crew and therefore shouldn't have been where they were. How can the referee put the red lights on before contact ... it was the contact between the two riders that caused the "unsatisfactory start." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Quad 7 Posted October 8, 2012 Any similarities??? Just saying... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ghostwalker 1,859 Posted October 8, 2012 1. So would people really like to see the World Championship settled by a refereeing decision, rather than through racing? It happened on the first bend, 2. so bringing back all four riders is a valid decision. And the right one. Although if you pressed me to exclude a rider, I'd say Pedersen. He caused the incident by pushing Holder off the track. Holder did lose control, but because Nicki had shoved him onto the grass. All the best Rob That is exactly what happened. The referee had to make a decision and he made the decision that is not in the rule book. By not excluding Holder, the referee gave Holder an advantage by giving him a second chance. Holder was off a better gate then Nicki and Holder made a better start the second time. 2. Please show me where in the rules it says that the referee can allow all 4 back. The referee job is to exclude the causing of the stoppage in this case Holder who made a worse start then Nicki. Holder then first pushed Nicki out, then lost control, then slamming into Nicki again while still being out of control. Holder is clearly the rider at fault. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iris123 21,053 Posted October 8, 2012 Exactly Ghostwalker,the referees decison(dodgy imo)did decide the title.As i said after the incident,sad and it spoils what was a great GP season.I would echo Philip Risings words on the other thread that i do think Holder will make a good world champion.Not sure if it says much about him or just this forum now,but there aren't that many congratulations for a new world champ.Used to be page after page for most champs.But then again there used to be 60 or 70 pages on a Poole meeting before the thing had even started,now there are hardly any for the play-off final,so maybe understandable. Said over the last winter that i wasn't convinced that AJ was going to move up to challenge for the title and was proved right.This time i really hope that Antonio carries on his improved form and actually makes a challenge next year.All in all a very good GP season which promises more of the same next year Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mixy230 120 Posted October 8, 2012 Nikki off of 2 ! Of course he had a plan! And it was a pretty good plan to! executed perfectly! He did not force Chris off of the track, if he had Nikki would have been excluded. (2 wheels off the track is off the track, 1 wheel off is sometimes the riders chosen line!) A split secound before the point of impact there was some space, but Chris got a jolt of grip and hit Nikki knocking him off. Of course Nikki made the most of it. Of course if it was the other way round Nikki would have gone. Of course Nikki on the walk back to the pits had a word in Chris's ear, all good tactics and gamesmanship! The most annoying thing to me was the real aggresion shown by the furry chinned one who stuck his face aggressively in Nikki's face while they were barging him away! That was not tactics or gamesmanship! Great viewing but on reflection shockingly unprofessional. All in all a good meeting, good world championship. Holder, Pederson, Hancock, Gollob, Lindback and a few more should make a great 2013 Holder was the quickest and a worthy Champion on SPEED AND SKILL! Well done Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
robinsgirl 59 Posted October 8, 2012 Somebody needs to get hold of the morons that were all around Holder on the track though, what on earth were they all doing there ? they did him no favours I wouldn't have called Nicki a moron but he should have just walked past Chris. I wonder who will get the last say in this thread and will that make their opinion correct? Entertaining it is! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
