brandonbee48 1,194 Posted September 23, 2013 Its pretty well documented that Jesus did exist, not very knowledgable if you question that. I am no expert on Mohammed, but I suspect he existed too. Agree with what you say about Torun getting everything they get though Two topics that should always be avoided . Religion and Politics. Whatever one's views are we must always respect another alternative opinion. "Not very knowledgEable if you question that" referring to the possible existence of someone who may have been "The Son Of God" or a socialist lunatic or a figment of the imagination is a private matter best left off a SPEEDWAY forum. We, for the most part, pride ourselves on the international section, in respecting the many and diverse views that emanate from many distant lands. "Pretty well documented" and "I am no expert but suspect" are hardly definitive and best kept for a private, one on one, exchange with someone who is willing to discuss such matters with you. Respectfully. Alan. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
racers and royals 8,737 Posted September 23, 2013 short video of some of the scenes from Zielona Gora yesterday http://www.sportowefakty.pl/zuzel/386291/zobacz-jak-unibax-torun-opuszczal-stadion-w-zielonej-gorze-wideo Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimmy jimmy 298 Posted September 23, 2013 Torun have the best stadium, and host an SGP...How much do you tarnish your most prestige product?...How embarrassing would it be for Polish speedway in the worlds eyes to say, "Welcome to Torun, our Liga I or Liga II club"? Just how much credibility has Scottish football lost since Rangers were demoted to the bottom of the league structure? Kicking Torun out of the Extraliga will do the same. Only problem is that it will also be equally much deserved, right and proper. "Justice" and "Realpolitik" may be at odds with each other over this one...glad I'm not an arbitrator. Could you imagine this forum if Poole pulled a stunt like that. But it's just a sad day for Polish speedway, rather than the end of speedway as a whole. There is more moaning about the quality of the streaming video than the fact the away team didn't turn up to the play off final. Sorry but Polish league speedway IS a joke if they get away with that. Imagine Man U not turning up to the derby match yesterday because Van Persie is injured. Nice stadium or no nice stadium, they should be kicked out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pandorum 1,259 Posted September 23, 2013 (edited) Its pretty well documented that Jesus did exist, not very knowledgable if you question that. I am no expert on Mohammed, but I suspect he existed too. Agree with what you say about Torun getting everything they get though Where exactly is it 'well documented'? The Bible perhaps? Which is akin to saying it's well documented that James Bond existed because he appears in a series of books. It actually is not documented at all other than in very loose 'interpretations' from so called religious texts by people who wanted to promote a religion and there is no evidence at all that anyone like the Jesus you relate to existed in the most reliable evidence from the day. That of the Roman Empire. For example there is no record of such an execution nor such a cencus as it was not the practice in Roman censuses to require people to return to their ancestral homes. Which was an essential element of the whole Myth as the Messiah had to be born in Bethlehem to fulfill the so called prophecy the whole thing was based on. People called Jesus existed as it was a common name but the rest But of course why let facts interfere with your religious beliefs So basically 'no it isn't' is my very knowledgable reply to your assertion And yes Torun are a disgrace and should be crucified for that Welcome back to the forum and au revoir from this side of the Atlantic. Look forward to hearing how you got on, after a jolly good night's kip. Alan. You have one great country over there mate. 21 states and 5686 miles by train tends to give you a pretty good idea of the place. From the top of the Empire State, Arlington Cemetery, Chicago, through the Rockies, Alcatraz, Sunset Strip to The Alamo. One Hell of a journey. Enjoyed it so much I am gonna go to Seattle in May and do another long rail trip along a different route. Edited September 23, 2013 by pandorum 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SCB 0 Posted September 23, 2013 I'm confused. So Torun had no Gollob but this great squad system everyone claims is great meant they have Kennett and Sullivan right? So where were they? I'm sure I read they had a replacement ready, who was it and why couldn't they ride? Why did Torun refuse to ride? On what grounds and what did they except to achieve? As I said at the start, I'm confused. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brandonbee48 1,194 Posted September 23, 2013 "You have one great country over there mate. 21 states and 5686 miles by train tends to give you a pretty good idea of the place. From the top of the Empire State, Arlington Cemetery, Chicago, through the Rockies, Alcatraz, Sunset Strip to The Alamo. One Hell of a journey. Enjoyed it so much I am gonna go to Seattle in May and do another long rail trip along a different route." Pandorum, It's good to have you back and i'm so glad you had a great time. In my 16 years here,i have been made incredibly welcome by a very warm-hearted,generous people. Like anywhere there are some loud-mouthed obnoxious plonkers (as on this forum ) but everyone can find their very own America and for my wife, son and i, a very peaceful and contented one it is. Really happy for you and good to have your valued opinions back. Regards. Alan. I'm confused. So Torun had no Gollob but this great squad system everyone claims is great meant they have Kennett and Sullivan right? So where were they? I'm sure I read they had a replacement ready, who was it and why couldn't they ride? Why did Torun refuse to ride? On what grounds and what did they except to achieve? As I said at the start, I'm confused. Until the FULL story emerges, so are a lot of us, mate! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
racers and royals 8,737 Posted September 23, 2013 (edited) Google translation of Torun statement on Sportowefakty "As explained bosses Unibaksu , the team has not been able to match on Sunday due to problems with the composition . The decision to resign from the Supervisory Board has taken off the club. Due to the refusal of the show in Zielona Gora , the title of Team Champion Polish team won Stelmet Falubaz . Toruń explained his decision not to join the match injury Tomasz Gollob . The conference appeared Slawomir Kryjom manager and president Matthew Kurzawski . As explained to the media , the decision to resign from the start has been made only in place in Zielona Gora. Toruń even on a Sunday morning they hoped that Tomasz Gollob will be able to ride in this meeting . - We wanted the game was spaced at equal strength, that it was a decent show. Tomasz Gollob No you could not count on it - explained . Stelmet bosses Falubaz heard on the site proposal to final second leg was postponed. Toruń proposed to play it for two weeks - October 6 . Capable of driving would have been if Gollob said . When it became clear that the two sides did not reach an agreement, the decision not to join the match seemed Supervisory Board , led by its chairman , James Nadachewiczem . According to Slawomir Kryjoma , contrary to what the media reported , the club has not challenged the decision of the same players . They said for that, since they are one team , you have to surrender a top-down decision . Representatives Unibaksu did not want to answer questions about possible sanctions . Also explained that there are as yet no signs of the Roman Karkosik . There were voices because that would have to withdraw from further financing of the club. Provided that none of the Supervisory Board has not contacted on Sunday with Robert Dowhan . As pointed out , the players respect the second place in the competition ENEA Extraleague and celebrate their win silver medals . The days will be taken and the decision whether Unibaksu fans who chose to coach the Green Mountains , you will receive a refund of all money. - I hope that the fans do not turn away from the club - said Matthew Kurzawski . The press conference summed up in words, that because of the injury Tomasz Gollob , Toruń " had no way worthy of being driven away match in Zielona Gora" . According to representatives of Unibaksu , withdrawal from the start it was a better option than to join the meeting in the composition of the heavily weakened " Can`t really imagine that with gollob lying in a Stockholm hospital they were expecting him to ride !!! Edited September 23, 2013 by racers and royals Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brandonbee48 1,194 Posted September 23, 2013 Torun have the best stadium, and host an SGP...How much do you tarnish your most prestige product?...How embarrassing would it be for Polish speedway in the worlds eyes to say, "Welcome to Torun, our Liga I or Liga II club"? Just how much credibility has Scottish football lost since Rangers were demoted to the bottom of the league structure? Kicking Torun out of the Extraliga will do the same. Only problem is that it will also be equally much deserved, right and proper. "Justice" and "Realpolitik" may be at odds with each other over this one...glad I'm not an arbitrator. How much MORE credibility would Scottish football have lost, if they had allowed Rangers to get away with it, is more the question, in my mind. Private Eye has printed endless stories of the financial skulduggery that was perpetrated by Craig Whyte and his cronies and my opinion is that Scottish football will emerge stronger in the long term for it's transparency. Our friend Pawel has his ear very close to the ground on the Polish scene and the influence of post-communism oligarchs. Yesterday was a defining point in Polish speedway. It was every uncomplimentary adjective you could throw at it, It should lead to a BIG clean up . If it doesn't then The Extraliga will become as big a joke as The Elite-Ford league has become Regards. Alan. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BWitcher 12,453 Posted September 23, 2013 (edited) Two topics that should always be avoided . Religion and Politics. Whatever one's views are we must always respect another alternative opinion. "Not very knowledgEable if you question that" referring to the possible existence of someone who may have been "The Son Of God" or a socialist lunatic or a figment of the imagination is a private matter best left off a SPEEDWAY forum. We, for the most part, pride ourselves on the international section, in respecting the many and diverse views that emanate from many distant lands. "Pretty well documented" and "I am no expert but suspect" are hardly definitive and best kept for a private, one on one, exchange with someone who is willing to discuss such matters with you. Respectfully. Alan. Then direct your post to the person who introduced it to the topic and has subsequently posted a further rambling post about it. My post had nothing to do with religion, simply stating, Jesus existed, before going back on topic. Edited September 23, 2013 by BWitcher Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nw42 2,048 Posted September 23, 2013 Google translation of Torun statement on Sportowefakty "As explained bosses Unibaksu , the team has not been able to match on Sunday due to problems with the composition . The decision to resign from the Supervisory Board has taken off the club. Due to the refusal of the show in Zielona Gora , the title of Team Champion Polish team won Stelmet Falubaz . Toruń explained his decision not to join the match injury Tomasz Gollob . The conference appeared Slawomir Kryjom manager and president Matthew Kurzawski . As explained to the media , the decision to resign from the start has been made only in place in Zielona Gora. Toruń even on a Sunday morning they hoped that Tomasz Gollob will be able to ride in this meeting . - We wanted the game was spaced at equal strength, that it was a decent show. Tomasz Gollob No you could not count on it - explained . Stelmet bosses Falubaz heard on the site proposal to final second leg was postponed. Toruń proposed to play it for two weeks - October 6 . Capable of driving would have been if Gollob said . When it became clear that the two sides did not reach an agreement, the decision not to join the match seemed Supervisory Board , led by its chairman , James Nadachewiczem . According to Slawomir Kryjoma , contrary to what the media reported , the club has not challenged the decision of the same players . They said for that, since they are one team , you have to surrender a top-down decision . Representatives Unibaksu did not want to answer questions about possible sanctions . Also explained that there are as yet no signs of the Roman Karkosik . There were voices because that would have to withdraw from further financing of the club. Provided that none of the Supervisory Board has not contacted on Sunday with Robert Dowhan . As pointed out , the players respect the second place in the competition ENEA Extraleague and celebrate their win silver medals . The days will be taken and the decision whether Unibaksu fans who chose to coach the Green Mountains , you will receive a refund of all money. - I hope that the fans do not turn away from the club - said Matthew Kurzawski . The press conference summed up in words, that because of the injury Tomasz Gollob , Toruń " had no way worthy of being driven away match in Zielona Gora" . According to representatives of Unibaksu , withdrawal from the start it was a better option than to join the meeting in the composition of the heavily weakened " Can`t really imagine that with gollob lying in a Stockholm hospital they were expecting him to ride !!! Cheers r&r Surely he couldn't have ridden even if he'd not broken any bones, he was spark out on the track for all to see, that alone was enough to guarantee his ommision. Or do they allow it in Poland? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BWitcher 12,453 Posted September 23, 2013 Where exactly is it 'well documented'? The Bible perhaps? Which is akin to saying it's well documented that James Bond existed because he appears in a series of books. It actually is not documented at all other than in very loose 'interpretations' from so called religious texts by people who wanted to promote a religion and there is no evidence at all that anyone like the Jesus you relate to existed in the most reliable evidence from the day. That of the Roman Empire. For example there is no record of such an execution nor such a cencus as it was not the practice in Roman censuses to require people to return to their ancestral homes. Which was an essential element of the whole Myth as the Messiah had to be born in Bethlehem to fulfill the so called prophecy the whole thing was based on. People called Jesus existed as it was a common name but the rest But of course why let facts interfere with your religious beliefs So basically 'no it isn't' is my very knowledgable reply to your assertion And yes Torun are a disgrace and should be crucified for that You have one great country over there mate. 21 states and 5686 miles by train tends to give you a pretty good idea of the place. From the top of the Empire State, Arlington Cemetery, Chicago, through the Rockies, Alcatraz, Sunset Strip to The Alamo. One Hell of a journey. Enjoyed it so much I am gonna go to Seattle in May and do another long rail trip along a different route. As Alan said this isn't the place to get involved in a debate over 'Jesus'. There is much documented evidence outside of the Bible to support the existence of Jesus. More evidence in fact than there is to support the existence of other luminary historical characters such as Socrates. The rest of the story, miracles, son of God etc, not getting involved on those issues.. that's a matter of faith and nobody can prove it one way or the other anyway. Back on topic.... do we have any updates on Gollobs condition? The walk out seemed to suggest they thought Gollob would be fit to ride in a couple of weeks?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iris123 20,997 Posted September 23, 2013 (edited) I'm confused. So Torun had no Gollob but this great squad system everyone claims is great meant they have Kennett and Sullivan right? So where were they? I'm sure I read they had a replacement ready, who was it and why couldn't they ride? Why did Torun refuse to ride? On what grounds and what did they except to achieve? As I said at the start, I'm confused. From what i read from a Torun fan it was the sponsor who told them not to ride!!! Wonder if he meant owner as it seems the manager and team wanted to ride.Clearly rubbish to have had any hope of Gollob riding.Absolute nonsense.Know of a number of fans who travelled over a 1000km round trip from germany and paid their admission just to see a trophy presented.The boss of one of our teams was totally puzzled by it all,but some of the others do appear to have been happy to join in the "after meeting" celebrations.Just as well i didn't take up the offer of one of the spare tickets going Edited September 23, 2013 by iris123 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lucifer sam 3,953 Posted September 23, 2013 As Alan said this isn't the place to get involved in a debate over 'Jesus'. There is much documented evidence outside of the Bible to support the existence of Jesus. More evidence in fact than there is to support the existence of other luminary historical characters such as Socrates. Socrates definitely existed. He played for Brazil in the 1982 World Cup. All the best Rob 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil 303 Posted September 23, 2013 mickey mouse was there sums it all up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BWitcher 12,453 Posted September 23, 2013 Socrates definitely existed. He played for Brazil in the 1982 World Cup. All the best Rob Indeed he did Jesus played for Spain in the same tournament, indeed there were two of them! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
