Wild Cards 2014

[fullbore 129]

 

actually i have gotten the impression that Zagar's withdrawal came several days earlier then Thursday but that it was not announced until the last minute.

 

Evidence?

 

Niamh

[DutchGrasstrack 804]

Done some digging:

 

Rumours came to the SGP website on the thursday (22/08), then the official message on the friday (23/08).

 

The first lineup was amended on 16/08 with Lathi replacing Przemek as he was injured. Pavlic and Kildemand as reserve. No sign of Harris yet. Then on 20/08 a new version was published with Kildemand replacing Loktaev as he had visa problems. Harris came in as second reserve with Pavlic still on #17.

 

Then on 23/08 another new version (final lineup) was published with Harris replacing Zagar and Barker and Bridger as reserve. Pavlic disappeared from the entry list.

 

 

So afterall it seems that Harris took the chance to be a second reserve and he was lucky that Zagar and Pavlic showed no interest and therefore he could race the whole meeting.

[shoestringtours 11]

I'm not going to worry....I'm going to have a sleep.....on pay !!

With a bit of luck and some sense from the FIM no bring on the youth

Edited December 9, 2013 by par_darrell

[racers and royals 8,730]

Done some digging:

 

Rumours came to the SGP website on the thursday (22/08), then the official message on the friday (23/08).

 

The first lineup was amended on 16/08 with Lathi replacing Przemek as he was injured. Pavlic and Kildemand as reserve. No sign of Harris yet. Then on 20/08 a new version was published with Kildemand replacing Loktaev as he had visa problems. Harris came in as second reserve with Pavlic still on #17.

 

Then on 23/08 another new version (final lineup) was published with Harris replacing Zagar and Barker and Bridger as reserve. Pavlic disappeared from the entry list.

 

 

So afterall it seems that Harris took the chance to be a second reserve and he was lucky that Zagar and Pavlic showed no interest and therefore he could race the whole meeting.

Thanks DGT for the digging-however like the German federation I`m still not entirely happy with the chain of events.If we remember back Pavlic and everyone else thought he had qualified for Poole from Lonigo-because the FIM failed to make it clear what would happen if Kennett failed to qualify from the delayed Holsted semi. I can understand why Pavlic with no equipment overhere couldn`t accept the offer to replace Zagar however Buczkowski who only failed to qualify for Poole in a Lonigo 4 rider race-off for 2 places up for grabs surely would have accepted if asked-5 rides away from the GP series. After all he had competed in Hungary and Italy.There was enough time for him or someone else to bring a "Polish engine " over for the Poole meeting.

[JonHWeiner 95]

Surely, whatever the rights and wrongs of the system, if the rules say that Bomber is in the GP's next year, if we call ourselves British speedway supporters, we should get behind him 100%. When was the last time we had 2 British GP riders?

[severnsider 197]

Surely, whatever the rights and wrongs of the system, if the rules say that Bomber is in the GP's next year, if we call ourselves British speedway supporters, we should get behind him 100%. When was the last time we had 2 British GP riders?

2010

[SCB 0]

Thanks DGT for the digging-however like the German federation I`m still not entirely happy with the chain of events.If we remember back Pavlic and everyone else thought he had qualified for Poole from Lonigo-because the FIM failed to make it clear what would happen if Kennett failed to qualify from the delayed Holsted semi. I can understand why Pavlic with no equipment overhere couldn`t accept the offer to replace Zagar however Buczkowski who only failed to qualify for Poole in a Lonigo 4 rider race-off for 2 places up for grabs surely would have accepted if asked-5 rides away from the GP series. After all he had competed in Hungary and Italy.There was enough time for him or someone else to bring a "Polish engine " over for the Poole meeting.

Buczkowski had already withdrawn by then. Once he'd withdrawn as he didn't want the reserve spot he could hardly lay claim to the place in the starting 16.

Edited December 9, 2013 by SCB

[f-s-p 832]

Buczkowski had already withdrawn by then. Once he'd withdrawn as he didn't want the reserve spot he could hardly lay claim to the place in the starting 16.

 

Buczkowski had already withdrawn by then. Once he'd withdrawn as he didn't want the reserve spot he could hardly lay claim to the place in the starting 16.

buczko withdrawing is new info since late august, a bit like the fact that FIM did it by the book and FMNR's are to blame. Is this info correct or just assumed?

[SPEEDY69 1,260]

Thanks DGT for the digging-however like the German federation I`m still not entirely happy with the chain of events.If we remember back Pavlic and everyone else thought he had qualified for Poole from Lonigo-because the FIM failed to make it clear what would happen if Kennett failed to qualify from the delayed Holsted semi. I can understand why Pavlic with no equipment overhere couldn`t accept the offer to replace Zagar however Buczkowski who only failed to qualify for Poole in a Lonigo 4 rider race-off for 2 places up for grabs surely would have accepted if asked-5 rides away from the GP series. After all he had competed in Hungary and Italy.There was enough time for him or someone else to bring a "Polish engine " over for the Poole meeting.

 

The fact that the chain of events has been shrouded in secrecy does little to appease thsoe who feel that unfairness has been at play. I've not seen, and although have asked have not had any reply, evidence that the two British riders ahead of Harris in the GP qualifiers (Kennett & Nicholls) were asked to take a reserve place at Poole - never mind the other 20/30/40 or so that were mentioned previously. Unless there's clarity I'll remain suspicious, especially where the BSPA/ACU are involved.

[2ndbendbeerhut 1,781]

So as it seems that a Wild Card pick (Tomasz Gollob) has not accepted his "pick". So surely its up to the organisers to ask another rider to be a Wild Card, and not be given to the "next in line"

[PHILIPRISING 7,298]

So as it seems that a Wild Card pick (Tomasz Gollob) has not accepted his "pick". So surely its up to the organisers to ask another rider to be a Wild Card, and not be given to the "next in line"

NO (for the hundredth time)...

[markw40 20]

NO (for the hundredth time)...

 

It's Speedway. The rules are made up as we go along. They can do as they like

 

Much better if they gave a young rising star like Dudek. Janowski or Jepsen Jensen a go assuming they want it

[phillipsr 2,053]

Terrible news for speedway. Harris is not good enough. I want the worlds best riders. Still at least we know who will come last even Smolinski will outpoint the clown.

[Dave the Mic 258]

I can't believe anyone on here thinks they actually know better than Phil in terms of the correct protocol having been followed regarding rider selection and nomination. He has said several times what the procedure was and the sequence of events that occurred, but of course those who have their own agenda (slating Harris, or promoting the virtue of their own favourite) will argue black is white that they weren't followed. Truth is, you have no idea and I would take his word over any body else's here any day of the week.

 

And why does anyone think that the FIM should make us all privy to their rules and protocols? Do you understand or have access to all the rules the FIA have for say, F1? Probably not. Why is this any different? Good on Phil for being prepared to put the facts on here, because he isn't obliged to.

 

Reality is, Harris was prepared to front up at Poole and stand and watch from the pits, regardless of getting a ride or not, when many, many others clearly weren't. Their problem (and some of yours), not his. Fair play to him for being prepared to turn up with potentially nothing to show for it apart from a long drive home after not racing.

 

You can debate the issue as long as you like, but the riders you refer to (and many others) turned the position down in the first instance and then like many on here, bleated after the event. I don't see how any of them can complain if they turned it down because they didn't think they would get a place in the main meeting and then, when Zagar withdrew, they wanted a place. Now very genuine of them.

 

Not one of you can criticise Harris in all honesty. He wanted to be there and was, when others couldn't be bothered to make the effort and good luck to him. I'll be cheering him on in Cardiff, even if he scores five last places. Just as I will all the other riders, because they all deserve our support, not our criticism.

 

If you don't like the fact that he is included, blame the farce that is the wild card system in the first place. Riders should have to qualify for a place in the world championship in my view, not be handed a place because they have had some misfortune along the way. I have nothing against, say Chris Holder, who was a worthy champion and will probably be champion again, but injuries and the like are part of this great sport of ours and you have to take the rough with the smooth. It's called life.

 

Did Ole Olsen get special treatment in 76, Peter Collins in 78, Hans Nielsen in 92, Gary Havelock in 94 along with many others who have fallen by the wayside in World Championship qualifying rounds over the years for a variety of reasons including injury, mechanical issues or whatever? No. You either qualified or you didn't and if you didn't you tried again the next year. I used to love the qualification rounds for the championship and attended many, many meetings of that ilk over the years and there was always a big name or two that failed to get through one round or another when you felt they were nailed on to qualify. It was part of the beauty of the competition and its a great shame it still isn't that way for my money, because you at least had 16 riders on the big night, ALL of whom had earns the right to be there. As it is, five of them, yes including Harris, if you like, have been handed their place rather than earning it.

[SPEEDY69 1,260]

I can't believe anyone on here thinks they actually know better than Phil in terms of the correct protocol having been followed regarding rider selection and nomination. He has said several times what the procedure was and the sequence of events that occurred, but of course those who have their own agenda (slating Harris, or promoting the virtue of their own favourite) will argue black is white that they weren't followed. Truth is, you have no idea and I would take his word over any body else's here any day of the week.

 

And why does anyone think that the FIM should make us all privy to their rules and protocols? Do you understand or have access to all the rules the FIA have for say, F1? Probably not. Why is this any different? Good on Phil for being prepared to put the facts on here, because he isn't obliged to.

 

Reality is, Harris was prepared to front up at Poole and stand and watch from the pits, regardless of getting a ride or not, when many, many others clearly weren't. Their problem (and some of yours), not his. Fair play to him for being prepared to turn up with potentially nothing to show for it apart from a long drive home after not racing.

 

You can debate the issue as long as you like, but the riders you refer to (and many others) turned the position down in the first instance and then like many on here, bleated after the event. I don't see how any of them can complain if they turned it down because they didn't think they would get a place in the main meeting and then, when Zagar withdrew, they wanted a place. Now very genuine of them.

 

Not one of you can criticise Harris in all honesty. He wanted to be there and was, when others couldn't be bothered to make the effort and good luck to him. I'll be cheering him on in Cardiff, even if he scores five last places. Just as I will all the other riders, because they all deserve our support, not our criticism.

 

If you don't like the fact that he is included, blame the farce that is the wild card system in the first place. Riders should have to qualify for a place in the world championship in my view, not be handed a place because they have had some misfortune along the way. I have nothing against, say Chris Holder, who was a worthy champion and will probably be champion again, but injuries and the like are part of this great sport of ours and you have to take the rough with the smooth. It's called life.

 

Did Ole Olsen get special treatment in 76, Peter Collins in 78, Hans Nielsen in 92, Gary Havelock in 94 along with many others who have fallen by the wayside in World Championship qualifying rounds over the years for a variety of reasons including injury, mechanical issues or whatever? No. You either qualified or you didn't and if you didn't you tried again the next year. I used to love the qualification rounds for the championship and attended many, many meetings of that ilk over the years and there was always a big name or two that failed to get through one round or another when you felt they were nailed on to qualify. It was part of the beauty of the competition and its a great shame it still isn't that way for my money, because you at least had 16 riders on the big night, ALL of whom had earns the right to be there. As it is, five of them, yes including Harris, if you like, have been handed their place rather than earning it.

I am not arguing black is white, nor professing to know more about rules, nor slating Harris etc etc. but my issue is with what you seem to accept as fact - I've put it on bold in the quote above, that "many many others clearly weren't". All I recall is Mr Rising mentioning that Craig Cook turned it down - nothing about others refusing. That is the issue and I doubt whether the FIM would let us know what's going on, as you point out but, as I believe Mr Rising said, it was the host federation who were finally asked to name the reserves. This is where the secrecy lies and if I think it seems unfair then I will only be swayed by fact, not supposition. Good luck to Harris and I will always support British riders but can't stand discrimination.