Why The Animosity?

[BWitcher 12,453]

Well then 'SCB' why don't you go up to and query whatever's troubling you with your own promoter (whoever that might be!) face to face rather than posting over forty thousand times on this forum? They won't bite!

 

I'm sorry Bryn, but this is precisely the sort of attitude that has led speedway in the UK to be where it is.. the promoters and their associates line of "why don't you".....

 

It's the promoters who should be following the "why don't you" if anyone, they're providing a service, thousands are clearly unhappy with it.. telling those unhappy customers "why don't you" will only lead to them being more unhappy, perhaps walking away for good.

 

"Why don't you" promoters do something pro-active and engage with your fanbase, they don't bite either, but they do pay you the money to keep your businesses alive.

 

Edited to add, that's not an attack on you Bryn, just a general observation of promoters around the country.

Edited July 29, 2013 by BWitcher

[The White Knight 9,039]

I'm sorry Bryn, but this is precisely the sort of attitude that has led speedway in the UK to be where it is.. the promoters and their associates line of "why don't you".....

 

It's the promoters who should be following the "why don't you" if anyone, they're providing a service, thousands are clearly unhappy with it.. telling those unhappy customers "why don't you" will only lead to them being more unhappy, perhaps walking away for good.

 

"Why don't you" promoters do something pro-active and engage with your fanbase, they don't bite either, but they do pay you the money to keep your businesses alive.

 

Edited to add, that's not an attack on you Bryn, just a general observation of promoters around the country.

 

I hope you noticed I've 'Liked' a couple of your Posts BW.

 

I'm getting a headache. :rofl:

[BWitcher 12,453]

I hope you noticed I've 'Liked' a couple of your Posts BW.

 

I'm getting a headache. :rofl:

 

Its this heat WK, it's getting to us all!!

[Leicester Lion 274]

 

 

Well then 'SCB' why don't you go up to and query whatever's troubling you with your own promoter (whoever that might be!) face to face rather than posting over forty thousand times on this forum? They won't bite!

Or maybe they will. I can't help feeling there's something sinister in the old "say it face to face" line. Even if the undertone is my own imagination, the "say it face to face" line only confirms that promoters don't take seriously the comments made by the paying public on forums such as this. Some of those comments may be purely vitriolic or ill-thought out, but many are made in good faith and arise from reasonably held opinions by people who care about the sport they pay good money to watch.

[Wheelsinline 11]

. The absolute WORST thing you can do is go on the attack, thus tarring all supporters with one brush. That will simply alienate your customers.

 

This was the point of the OP in reality and a point I have brought up to a few on twitter. Not all members on ANY forum are there just to pour scorn and pick faults out of those trying to earn a living out of the sport. Some genuinely just love to watch racing and read about it, They dont deserve to be called jokers and hypocrites from those that should know better.

[uk_martin 1,607]

...there has been a lot of negative comments about the forum from riders and also managers which I was very suprised about in reality.... why you think that this is happening? Are supporters not allowed to have an opinion in a sport...

 

Everyone's allowed an opinion, however, as with most things in life, only the discontented seem to be the ones who voice their opinions. It gives a false impression in the same way that if you read the tabloid newspapers where only bad news makes it to the front pages, you'd think that the world was coming to an end.

[ch958 2,398]

I hope you noticed I've 'Liked' a couple of your Posts BW.

 

I'm getting a headache. :rofl:

 

must confess i'm with you bw on this

[Vince 9,459]

The governing body hates Social Media/forums as it expose the way some fans, who may, or may not, know anything at all about the business side think the sport is run.. or not run.

 

Would perhaps be more accurate from a Promoters point of view!

 

Firstly I do think that Promoters could make better use of the forum and on some things could be more open than they are.

 

However I also believe that you don't have to read through too many topics to see why they don't take the forum seriously. As an example if you were the Leicester Promoter reading the never ending thread about his club can you honestly say that your lasting impression would be about the sensible comments and constructive criticism offered by the vast majority of posters? If it were me I very much doubt that I would be able to see much past the continued abuse and personal attacks of a very small minority.

 

That minority of posters who fail to credit the BSPA (an organisation which is made up largely of businessmen who have been successful enough to be able invest heavily in a sport they are passionate about) with any sense whatever and are pretty vocal and often abusive in saying so cost this forum any credibility it might ever have within the sport.

 

For sure there are things in Speedway and about the BSPA that drive me nuts and I would like to think I know ways in which they could be improved. However my ideas for Speedway are just that and should they succeed or fail they will not endanger my business and quite possibly risk my families financial security. With those things at risk I too might be reluctant to rock the boat too hard.

 

I understand how the 'say it face to face' comment might appear threatening but equally if people only posted what they would be willing to say to the persons face perhaps their comments might earn some respect. There is no reason to be abusive about people from a position of anonymity and /or distance other than cowardice.

[BWitcher 12,453]

I can't agree with any of that Vince (apart from it's their money/risk etc)

 

You simply do not attack your customers, or dismiss their comments out of hand as not 'credible'. Forums such as this give promoters a powerful tool to actually understand some of the gripes and frustrations that their customers have.

 

The BSPA policy is often to ignore that. The results speak for themselves.

 

People only posting what they would say to someones face.. again, antiquated and out of date. Informaton is power, many businesses would love to know what their customers 'real' thoughts were so they could improve their business accordingly.

[stratton 1,491]

Would have to agree, i would want to know what other people's opinions were to see it from every angle.But over the years and i mean years this sport has made some baffling decisions and now it is part of the norm will things change? i doubt it.

[Leicester Lion 274]

 

 

Would perhaps be more accurate from a Promoters point of view!

 

Firstly I do think that Promoters could make better use of the forum and on some things could be more open than they are.

 

However I also believe that you don't have to read through too many topics to see why they don't take the forum seriously. As an example if you were the Leicester Promoter reading the never ending thread about his club can you honestly say that your lasting impression would be about the sensible comments and constructive criticism offered by the vast majority of posters? If it were me I very much doubt that I would be able to see much past the continued abuse and personal attacks of a very small minority.

 

That minority of posters who fail to credit the BSPA (an organisation which is made up largely of businessmen who have been successful enough to be able invest heavily in a sport they are passionate about) with any sense whatever and are pretty vocal and often abusive in saying so cost this forum any credibility it might ever have within the sport.

 

For sure there are things in Speedway and about the BSPA that drive me nuts and I would like to think I know ways in which they could be improved. However my ideas for Speedway are just that and should they succeed or fail they will not endanger my business and quite possibly risk my families financial security. With those things at risk I too might be reluctant to rock the boat too hard.

 

I understand how the 'say it face to face' comment might appear threatening but equally if people only posted what they would be willing to say to the persons face perhaps their comments might earn some respect. There is no reason to be abusive about people from a position of anonymity and /or distance other than cowardice.

It shouldn't be about "earning" respect. The promoters should automatically respect their customers and appreciate that they will express opinions. The method of expressing them isn't important, one is no better than another. It's what is said that should matter.

Edited July 30, 2013 by Leicester Lion

[jimmy jimmy 298]

I don't know how many clubs have fans forums, but they should be regular.

 

i think one of the main problems is that the EL doesn't appear to be run professionally enough. I think it stems quite simply from the fact that the fixture list seems all over the place. I can't see why it can't be that for a 28 match programme it can't be one match a week for each team plus an extra match in a week when there is a bank holiday. Scheduling for other leagues and events becomes simpler and always have Monday nights for rain off rescheduling.

[Vince 9,459]

I can't agree with any of that Vince (apart from it's their money/risk etc)

 

You simply do not attack your customers, or dismiss their comments out of hand as not 'credible'. Forums such as this give promoters a powerful tool to actually understand some of the gripes and frustrations that their customers have.

 

The BSPA policy is often to ignore that. The results speak for themselves.

 

People only posting what they would say to someones face.. again, antiquated and out of date. Informaton is power, many businesses would love to know what their customers 'real' thoughts were so they could improve their business accordingly.

 

I agree that you should not dismiss the forum out of hand and that it could be a useful tool for the BSPA but I can understand how it has come about when you read some of the stuff on here.

 

As far as only posting what you would say to somebody's face I can see nothing antiquated about having a discussion in an adult and reasonable manner on this forum. That is how the vast majority of the people who post on here would carry out a conversation 'face to face'. The majority would not be abusive to somebody stood in front of them, not because they are scared but because most people don't behave that way in normal life. There is nothing wrong with considered criticism and everything wrong with anonymous abuse in my opinion.

 

Nobody ever took criticism well from somebody that was personally abusive, lied or had no idea of the facts behind their criticism. Of course it is about earning respect, both ways, posters on here by making their points in a sensible way and the BSPA by responding to that properly.

[Grand Central 2,654]

Let's not get too carried away with the thought that it is the BSF that the promoters hate.

 

It is just the criticism, they hate.

They cannot hack it no matter what the 'forum'.

 

Surely we all remember Len Silver taking great umbridge at the Speedway Star feature on people's views earlier in the year.

 

In the 21st Century dissent just happens to come via electronic media.

For most of the twentieth century it would be via post, the local paper or in person.

 

But promoters have always hated it.

They have never encouraged it.

And they certainly have never listened.

 

Back in Pioneer days it would have been no different.

AJ Hunting, Johnnie Hoskins et al.

They'd have shot down the carrier pigeons.

If they brought critical messages.

 

.

Edited July 30, 2013 by Grand Central

[BWitcher 12,453]

I agree that you should not dismiss the forum out of hand and that it could be a useful tool for the BSPA but I can understand how it has come about when you read some of the stuff on here.

 

As far as only posting what you would say to somebody's face I can see nothing antiquated about having a discussion in an adult and reasonable manner on this forum. That is how the vast majority of the people who post on here would carry out a conversation 'face to face'. The majority would not be abusive to somebody stood in front of them, not because they are scared but because most people don't behave that way in normal life. There is nothing wrong with considered criticism and everything wrong with anonymous abuse in my opinion.

 

Nobody ever took criticism well from somebody that was personally abusive, lied or had no idea of the facts behind their criticism. Of course it is about earning respect, both ways, posters on here by making their points in a sensible way and the BSPA by responding to that properly.

 

You have to ask yourself why some of the stuff on here has 'come about'.

 

My point regarding face to face is not in relation to the 'abusive' posts, its more in line with the fact that most people will not be as critical in a face to face situation. On a forum they are far more likely to reveal the real reasons why they are disillusioned with the sport and to ignore such views is to wash money down the drain...