Nl Riders Championship - Rye House 21st September.

[Daniel Smith 5,666]

 

 

Take a look at comments on world championships in the 1950s and 1960s for starters? My speedway memories as an active follower go back to 1946 - I have seen and heard some incredible things in that time, and not just from the spectator's side of the safety fence!

 

 

When people mention that it has happened in meetings far more important than the NLRC they are probably referring to the 1969 World Final. It is a running joke in our house that my dad practically cleared a section of Wembley with his vocal blast at Ivan Mauger after he finished behind his Belle Vue team mate Soren Sjosten in heat 20. Mauger had gone unbeaten to this point and was already world champion. Sjosten's win enabled him to finish on 11, securing him a run-off against Barry Briggs for second (which he lost so ultimately finished third on the night). Had Mauger beaten Sjosten, Sjosten would have gone into a run off with Nigel Boocock for third.

 

The fact is, this is precisely why semis and a final is by far the best way to decide a meeting. The 20 heat qualifying event prior to semis (be that one semi or two) and a final negates the need for this kind of rubbish to happen. Mauger would have been unable to help Sjosten out in 1969 and Starke would have been unwilling to move over last night to let Blackbird through as he would still have been looking for a top 6 or 8 finish himself.

 

Anyone who believes that the flawed and anachronistic 20 heat format was/is the best way to decide a meeting is, in my opinion, letting misplaced nostalgia cloud their judgement.

Not forgetting Penhall at White City if course.....

 

Not forgetting Penhall at White City if course.....

 

Not forgetting Penhall at White City if course.....

 

But this is all opinion and guess work isn't it?? Has anyone actually said they let someone win, even years after an event??

 

Many of riders have gone through the card and won meetings before their last ride and ended up at the back. Doesn't mean they've purposely helped a fellow rider with intention.

 

It's just human nature, already won you then don't try as hard

[secsy1 213]

When Arsenal lose today at home to Stoke and Manchester United let Manchester City win to allow a northern team to be above a southern team, will it be called gamesmanship

 

Cheating is cheating and at present Cricket, Snooker and Football are cleaning up this gamesmanship lark due to money being involved. Betting and throwing matches.

 

It is not needed and if it continues at the lowest level of our sport, how do any on here think that the sport can be ever taken seriously :approve:

[KenB1 23]

Well a great nights racing and plenty to talk about, so if you want to see it again or if you dint go and want to see it, T2TV covered the whole meeting and it is on a double DVD. Includes all 21 races and plenty of interviews, including the 1-2-3 and the presentations. Then you can judge for yourself.

[rhidassa 73]

Well done to Boxall, disappointing for Kerr but he had a great night.

 

I do personally agree this would have been better at a track such as Peterborough; whilst I appreciate no track is truly neutral as at least one of the riders in the field is likely to have ridden there, I doubt any of the riders in the field last night has vast experience at Peterborough. Of course, it's a moot point now, and something I think should be considered for all of these events, but that's just my opinion.

 

As for the Paul Starke incident... well, yes, he clearly looked for Blackbird then let him past. If he'd just made out he lost it slightly or had mechanical issues, there'd be less discussion.. but no. I like Paul, but I can't say I was impressed. I wouldn't have expected Robert or Lewis to gift each other points to help each other out - I'd expect them to be racing to do the best they could, as it was an individual.

[bruno 1,790]

first of all congrats to steve boxall and lewis kerr,best two best riders on the night. I reckon lewis blackbird deserved third but I felt uncomfortable with what happened with starkey. it was blatant end of. it does happen at every level but this was so obvious it was shocking. would have been worse if blackbird had won the meeting. secondly the booing of Stefan Nielsen was out of order but again don't taint all heathens fans, it was just a couple of morons. all Dudley fans around me were clapping him as he walked past. not a good meeting in my opinion ,very little passing but its always the same at rye house. great set up but surely the track is the most important part of a meeting but how many times do we say that about other tracks as well. and finally to all who missed out on the fish and chips you were the lucky ones!! I think mine came out of the canal next door. horrible. last thing 18 pound with programme was to expensive. rant over but after spending around 40 pound and in my eyes not getting vfm it could be my last visit to the nlrc just has a couple of years ago was my last visit to Cardiff for the same reason and tbh to a few other tracks as well. sad but true

[Bagpuss 10,784]

Well a great nights racing

 

While I appreciate that you have a product to promote do you really believe that? For me it was a poor night's racing.

[G the Bee 639]

But this is all opinion and guess work isn't it?? Has anyone actually said they let someone win, even years after an event??

 

Many of riders have gone through the card and won meetings before their last ride and ended up at the back. Doesn't mean they've purposely helped a fellow rider with intention.

 

It's just human nature, already won you then don't try as hard

 

You are right of course. The Sjosten incident is a case in point.

 

In his autobiography Mauger states that he was simply playing it safe, finishing behind a rider he was 'a bit wary' of. However, he does acknowledge the disgruntled Coventry followers. Perhaps he heard my dad!

 

What I was trying to say in my post was the system of qualifiers, a semi and a final limits opportunities for gamesmanship or, just as importantly, giving the impression of gamesmanship.

 

I have edited my previous post to reflect Ivan's views.

Edited September 22, 2013 by G the Bee

[Parsloes 1928 nearly 495]

Anyone who believes that the flawed and anachronistic 20 heat format was/is the best way to decide a meeting is, in my opinion, letting misplaced nostalgia cloud their judgement.

Extraordinary comment!

The two big indivs over the last two days shows unquestionably exactly WHY the proper 20 heat formula is the best - and how unnecessary and unfair the semis/Grand Final 'system' is..

At Coventry for the U-19s you had two riders unbeaten on 4 wins apiece meeting in heat 19.. What a climax that would've been. Except because a GF awaited it didn't matter barely a jot who won that race and who was second.

Then come the GF you have the rider who had achieved a 15 point maximum failing to make it six and losing out to a rider who'd scored just 12.

I accept that was the system but it made for a less fair outcome and actually denied the public an exciting climax in the way an indiv meeting SHOULD be dedided.

 

The NLRC thankfully doesn't go for such nonsense. And with heat 20 there again huge drama. Boxall needs to win to force a run off. Up against Blackbird who (despite blatant cheating from a team mate) actually can't now win but could possibly still get second - Blackbird leads and Boxall gets past him in a breathtaking pass (it wasn't a 'rubbish' meeting btw!).

And so two riders tied on 14 and there's a run off which is right and proper but nothing like a manufactured GF.

 

As for the run off , well Lewis tried to pass caughgt Steve's back wheel and the lad himself admitted it was his fault. What a brilliant sporting comment by Lewis who's a credit to himself and the sport. Sadly the antics of the Dudley pair can't be spoken on as falling into the same bracket..

[G the Bee 639]

Extraordinary comment!

The two big indivs over the last two days shows unquestionably exactly WHY the proper 20 heat formula is the best - and how unnecessary and unfair the semis/Grand Final 'system' is..

At Coventry for the U-19s you had two riders unbeaten on 4 wins apiece meeting in heat 19.. What a climax that would've been. Except because a GF awaited it didn't matter barely a jot who won that race and who was second.

Then come the GF you have the rider who had achieved a 15 point maximum failing to make it six and losing out to a rider who'd scored just 12.

I accept that was the system but it made for a less fair outcome and actually denied the public an exciting climax in the way an indiv meeting SHOULD be dedided.

 

The NLRC thankfully doesn't go for such nonsense. And with heat 20 there again huge drama. Boxall needs to win to force a run off. Up against Blackbird who (despite blatant cheating from a team mate) actually can't now win but could possibly still get second - Blackbird leads and Boxall gets past him in a breathtaking pass (it wasn't a 'rubbish' meeting btw!).

And so two riders tied on 14 and there's a run off which is right and proper but nothing like a manufactured GF.

 

As for the run off , well Lewis tried to pass caughgt Steve's back wheel and the lad himself admitted it was his fault. What a brilliant sporting comment by Lewis who's a credit to himself and the sport. Sadly the antics of the Dudley pair can't be spoken on as falling into the same bracket..

 

Sorry, you are entitled to your opinion, of course, but are living in the past.

 

You talk about a climax to a meeting. Surely there can be no better climax to a meeting than keeping the meeting undecided until the final heat! The one flaw in your comment above about Friday at Brandon is that you state the climax to the meeting would have happened in heat 19! With a heat to go! That makes no sense at all. Both riders from heat 19 also appeared in the final anyway, so I struggle to see the point you are making.

 

For all your talk about the Boxall heat last night, that action could have been in heat 17 if the draw had panned out differently. Then you would have potentially had to have sat through 3 more meaningless heats. I don't want to see a meeting decided three heats before the end.

 

You are also overlooking the points I made earlier about possibilities for gamesmanship the 20 heat formula brings up. Opportunities for this are drastically reduced in the 20 heat format followed by semis and a final.

 

In regards to the U19s, the fact is, despite his maximum, Ashley Morris was not the best rider on display on Friday at Brandon. He made some awful gates tbf and always looked like he was going to be up against it if he came to the tapes against the top 4 in the meeting. In the final, Nielsen went off the outside, was the only rider all night to put his back wheel in the dirt whilst the others played it safe and won the final in a new track record! Job done.

 

I'm sorry but the GPs are a far better spectacle than any of the old world finals were. One of the reasons for that is because of the race format. Each heat means something. You are either watching riders fight for maximum points at the top of the leaderboard or fight to get into the semis. Then it starts all over again. Great stuff.

Edited September 22, 2013 by G the Bee

[Parsloes 1928 nearly 495]

Pretty thin argument there. Oh dear we've just had a brilliantly exciting heat 19; but curses, now we're going to have to suffer the extreme tedium of an oh-so boring heat 20!! Do you set off to the car after heat 12 when an EL match is decided that early!?

 

Your point about gamesmanship also makes not one iota of sensre. Starke's cheating (gamesmanship's just semantics, it's cheating...) would've benefitted his team mate massively more if they'd been a Grand Final; as it was, it only ruined the chances of two other riders for third place which though I feel for them (especially young Robert), it's not as bad as the thought that the Dudley pair's actions could've had led to Blackbird winning the title itself.

 

I wasn't a Cov on Friday, so I bow to your better judgement but seems a strange comment to put it mildly to say that Morris wasn't the best rider when he completed a 15 points maximum after the 20 heats...!

[G the Bee 639]

But it was your argument! You were the one that talked about a climax to a meeting. My point was that surely the climax should come at the end!

 

I don't understand the point you are making in your second paragraph. Why would Starke even consider helping his team mate out if they had both qualified for a grand final? Surely Starke would want to win it himself if he was in it!

 

My point was, had the meeting been run under the GP type system, Starke would not have considered helping his team mate out in that heat 15 as he would have been totally focused on getting enough points himself to get into the semis. As he was on 3 points after 3 rides a couple of decent rides in his 4th and 5th could well have seen him through. In the same vein, Blackbird after 3 rides was sitting pretty for the semis anyway, so would not have needed Starke's assistance in the first place!

Edited September 22, 2013 by G the Bee

[Kent Whistle Gang 58]

Firstly, hearty congratulations to Steve Boxall. Quite simply, he embodies everything I want to see in one of my riders. He is a true gladiator of the sport. Maybe a little rough around the edges when it comes to interacting with the fans but hey, he'll do for me. I can't seem to insert a new line here so I'll just keep typing. Regarding the 'controversies' referred to elsewhere. 1) Starke's actions in letting Blackbird through were disgraceful. Should and could he be punished? Probably, but how? Exclusion was mentioned, but what effect would that have had? He should have been given a public warning and a kick up the backside by Worrall (who was cheated out of a run off for 3rd place) for being a complete prat. 2) Morley turned left on Carr in heat 10 and was quite rightly excluded for it. 3) Dudley fans booing Nielsen? I heard it but, not knowing there was history, didn't understand it. No place for that in this sport though, especially following a fall. That said, I did boo Starke for his transgression. 4) Kerr ran into Boxall and went to ground a bit too easily. For me, he realised he'd been beaten to the first turn and was looking for a rerun. Still can't insert a new line...... I thought the Kent Kings fans were amazing last night. We easily outnumbered any other teams' supporters, we were noisy, good natured, fair minded and oh so loyal (witness the receptions given to Jack Kingston and the non-riding Adam Kirby). 3rd in the Pairs, 2nd in the 4s, 1st in the NLRC. We're just overjoyed to have a proper team to follow again. Just you watch us next season!

[Trees 2,814]

So disappointed for Lewis Kerr, sooooooooooo wanted him to beat Boxall who is a veteran when it comes to laps round Rye House! But hey ho that's speedway ..........

 

So no more dogs at Rye, the place could do with a bit of spruce up and what's happened with the fish and chips, no fish left at 6pm, the chips weren't the best and the margarine with a roll ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwww, had to scrape the stuff off YUK!

 

Only went to watch our boyz, now reinstating my exile The guy on the pit gate, where on earth does he buy those trousers, loved his patent red shoes though LOL

[Bagpuss 10,784]

Kerr ran into Boxall and went to ground a bit too easily. For me, he realised he'd been beaten to the first turn and was looking for a rerun.

 

You make some very good points but this one is nonsense.....Lewis simply picked up some unwanted grip and that was that.

[Parsloes 1928 nearly 495]

But it was your argument! You were the one that talked about a climax to a meeting. My point was that surely the climax should come at the end!

 

I've never said that the proper 20 heat format necessarily leads to an amazing climax - by definition it's possible it may not. Not every football match ever played or shown on TV is a thrillier to the last minute. It's called sport and it's unpredictable. But to manufacture an exciting finish regardless of what's right in terms of giving the best chance for the best rider to succeed is to abandon the principles of sport for a more show biz approach. Fair enough if that's what you want; but personally I think we should leave the tried and tested format alone and remember it often in any case gives us fantastically exciting meeting conclusions like last night..