spiegal 294 Posted November 18, 2013 and which Promoter would be willing to pay out good money on something that may or may not be classed as an asset in the very near future ? Nobody with an ounce of brain cells would pay 1 single penny for any "Rider Assets"...it simply doesn't make commercial or legal sense. The only way in law a rider has asset value is if all contracts were held by say the BSPA...then they could apportion/value that asset. The value of any business is in its Goodwill and actual (physical) asset value. You can ask what you like for a business..even say £500k...but something is only worth what somebody will pay....simple really. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PHILIPRISING 7,298 Posted November 18, 2013 IF Rick Frost doesn't wish to hire/lease the Showground wouldn't the Showground authorities be at liberty to enter into an agreement within anyone else willing to do so? If Frost (as an example) has no rider assets and doesn't own the stadium what exactly does he have to sell? If I rented premises and ran a sandwich shop in Surbiton high street and walked away, what would stop someone else from hiring the facility and opening his own sandwich shop? Therem ust be some restraint of trade considerations in there somewhere. Rider assets usually only receive a nominal or zero value in the books because they inherently have no residual worth, and I think if a promotion is wound-up, the riders revert to being assets of the BSPA. I think a former promoter can still receive any transfer or loan fees for 3 years, minus any outstanding rider wages or other debts, but I'm not sure they have any involvement in the selling or loaning process if they're no longer active.I'd imagine any sale of a promotion would involve transfer of the assets for an agreed price, but if another potential promoter knows the other wants to get out, I doubt they're going to be offering the full perceived value of those assets.Even if they had them under contract, how could they be legally deemed assets? We all know this basically a old gentleman's agreement that would be unenforceable if anyone really wants to rock the boat.I must say though, I do wonder what's brought on this concern for riders' rights as I still don't remember (m)any editorials denouncing the evils of a system keeping riders as indentured chattels over the years I read the Star? YOU must have missed those pages then... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spiegal 294 Posted November 18, 2013 Totally correct Phil.....the only problems in all of this would the 1. The Showground who just may say "No more"...and any incoming tennant would need some form of guarantee on a lease 2.What price Mr Frost would set on his assets. 3. If the business has lost money...then what level headed buyer would pay good money for it ?..4.I would suggest that any incoming prospective promoter must not have the name of Ribbans !!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mudflaps 664 Posted November 18, 2013 IF Rick Frost doesn't wish to hire/lease the Showground wouldn't the Showground authorities be at liberty to enter into an agreement within anyone else willing to do so? If Frost (as an example) has no rider assets and doesn't own the stadium what exactly does he have to sell? If I rented premises and ran a sandwich shop in Surbiton high street and walked away, what would stop someone else from hiring the facility and opening his own sandwich shop? Therem ust be some restraint of trade considerations in there somewhere. Agreed - but he does have considerable rider assets (approx 20 current riders by my calculation) as to what they are actually worth is anyone guess. Therefore what is someone prepared to pay to transfer the ownership of these assets and then negotiate hiring the EOES to stage speedway... ? With no current debts according to Rick Frost - just how much Wonga will it tempt him to sell the Panthers - surely anything in better than nothing in this economic climate... Rick Frost could be stubborn and dig his heels in and maybe get some sort of return on his Panthers Project or write the investment off for the good for the Peterborough fans of Speedway and let someone else have a crack! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
posh panther 50 Posted November 18, 2013 (edited) I just cant understand why they just didnt sell up at the end of the season so someone else could take us on????Please explain Rick...Its like having a ferrari on credit that you cant afford and instead of letting it go you would rather crash it so no one else can have it or enjoy it! Edited November 18, 2013 by posh panther 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PHILIPRISING 7,298 Posted November 18, 2013 Agreed - but he does have considerable rider assets (approx 20 current riders by my calculation) as to what they are actually worth is anyone guess. Therefore what is someone prepared to pay to transfer the ownership of these assets and then negotiate hiring the EOES to stage speedway... ? With no current debts according to Rick Frost - just how much Wonga will it tempt him to sell the Panthers - surely anything in better than nothing in this economic climate... Rick Frost could be stubborn and dig his heels in and maybe get some sort of return on his Panthers Project or write the investment off for the good for the Peterborough fans of Speedway and let someone else have a crack! Agreed - but he does have considerable rider assets (approx 20 current riders by my calculation) as to what they are actually worth is anyone guess. Therefore what is someone prepared to pay to transfer the ownership of these assets and then negotiate hiring the EOES to stage speedway... ? With no current debts according to Rick Frost - just how much Wonga will it tempt him to sell the Panthers - surely anything in better than nothing in this economic climate... Rick Frost could be stubborn and dig his heels in and maybe get some sort of return on his Panthers Project or write the investment off for the good for the Peterborough fans of Speedway and let someone else have a crack! YOU are still missing the real point here... we are assuming, for the sake of argument, that riders cannot be classified as assets. If Rick Frost has no current contract with them and isn't paying them then what right has he to effectively sell them? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fish keeper 165 Posted November 18, 2013 I hope the panthers find a buyer soon I liked my visits there with wolves. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BluTiger 21,701 Posted November 18, 2013 I am very disappointed that RF did not consider dropping the team down to the Premier lge, and then announce the club was up for sale. Surely this would have given him more time to find a buyer, and ensure speedway at the Showground... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
screm 8,057 Posted November 18, 2013 Totally correct Phil.....the only problems in all of this would the 1. The Showground who just may say "No more"...and any incoming tennant would need some form of guarantee on a lease 2.What price Mr Frost would set on his assets. 3. If the business has lost money...then what level headed buyer would pay good money for it ?..4.I would suggest that any incoming prospective promoter must not have the name of Ribbans !!! Mr Frost can put any value he likes on his assets,the true value is what someone is willing to pay for the. Can Frost retain his assets and simply loan his riders out to other clubs,and if so does Frost recieve the loan payment.Ok it wouldnt be massive amounts but it seems to me theres easy money to be made if he would get loan fees. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
posh panther 50 Posted November 18, 2013 They have had a few calls of interest to the Pboro evening telegraph today so fingers crossed all is not lost. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fromafar 10,375 Posted November 18, 2013 YOU are still missing the real point here... we are assuming, for the sake of argument, that riders cannot be classified as assets. If Rick Frost has no current contract with them and isn't paying them then what right has he to effectively sell them?Does Rick Frost have an agreement on the lease of the Showground for Speedway though,it might mean that until it ends he has control who can run the sport at the Showground,Just a Question Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Irk Deflector 130 Posted November 18, 2013 YOU are still missing the real point here... we are assuming, for the sake of argument, that riders cannot be classified as assets. If Rick Frost has no current contract with them and isn't paying them then what right has he to effectively sell them?Probably the same right as those who insisted he had to buy the assets in the first place. An interesting can of worms if Mr Frost decides to pursue matters via the courts. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Warren2 65 Posted November 18, 2013 They have had a few calls of interest to the Pboro evening telegraph today so fingers crossed all is not lost. Posh Panther, I hope your source is correct, as this is promising compared to last 24hrs. but you havent been adverse to Frosty burning his ? maybe you will become a casual fan, just watching Speedway for the sake of Speedway, rather than following one team come what may. I am not sure what to think, I am just not going to criticise a guy who has put endless £ into the club without knowing the facts. Just like 2010 and I do not direct this point at you but many poster's slated Pboro and who knew the facts. All we heard before the AGM was big changes, more teams etc We have the same teams in league, may have lost 1 for good and the change was a poor 1. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
posh panther 50 Posted November 18, 2013 (edited) The source is Peterborough evening telegraph sports writer Mark Plummers twitter. Edited November 18, 2013 by posh panther Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PHILIPRISING 7,298 Posted November 18, 2013 HERE'S another hypothetical scenario ... You work in a local shop, which is rented by the owner of the business. One day he comes in and says he is closing it down, walks away leaving you out of work.. A few days later someone else rents the shop and offers you employment, which you accept. But then the previous owner demands a fee from the new owner for your employment. Surely, that in effect is the situation facing the current Peterborough riders? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
