spin king 1,923 Posted November 27, 2013 Yeah, but Spinny, that's no excuse for making wild accusations, (based on his own dreamed up theories as usual), about a widely respected performer, such as Jason Lyons. I didn't say that I agreed with what he said merely pointed out that he said from the time that Jason Lyons signed for the club. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The White Knight 9,039 Posted November 27, 2013 Whilst all the Newcastle babies react to Lyons comments, which are not merely made up as they would dearly like to believe...just because he is a nice guy, which he is, doesnt mean it didnt happen. But when have I said he wasnt a nice guy? I havent, I know he helped out many Bears riders, the lower order he would often try to show them how best way to get around the first and second bends with full throttle rather than tip toeing into it. And for the record I only bemoan him doing what he did as it was Redcar, I dont begrudge any rider making the best of his situation - but I would rather it not when I am helping to pay his wages. And unlike with Lyons, Stonehewer et al Gray Havelock, was, is and forever will be a Teesside sporting legend, if he did drop to reserve most true Middlesbrough/Redcar fans would not argue against that - yes horrible to see, but he is OUR legend, not a has been from elsewhere - huge difference, to even compare the likes of Lyons to Gary Havelock is lunacy. But anyway - end of the matter, this is a Redcar thread, so all you golden oldies geordies and mackems slope off back to the Newcastle thread and talk about how Richie Worrall is not a huge miss for the new season, and you never really wanted him back anyway! And because of my opposition to Lyons and Stonehewer, I do hope that we dont look at Stuart Robson - past it now and wont improve. I hope Havvy snr stands by his word and brings in a genuine number one who will average well in excess of 9 next season. Problem is you can't ignore the truth. You say Gary Havelock was a Legend on Teeside - that is very true - he WAS a great Rider and deserved to be a Legend. He was a former World Champion for heavens sake - that alone should give him legendary status in his home town. But some of his performances in his last two Seasons were hardly glorious. I admire Gary as much as anyone but I can see the stage where his age caught up with him. Sad I know, but it happens to us all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tsunami 10,219 Posted November 27, 2013 Problem is you can't ignore the truth. You say Gary Havelock was a Legend on Teeside - that is very true - he WAS a great Rider and deserved to be a Legend. He was a former World Champion for heavens sake - that alone should give him legendary status in his home town. But some of his performances in his last two Seasons were hardly glorious. I admire Gary as much as anyone but I can see the stage where his age caught up with him. Sad I know, but it happens to us all. Unfortunately RR thinks that is accusation is the 'truth' and every one else is wrong. Even Spinny has said that RR was always against Redcar from the start, so it is a hatred born out of something else, not the accusation that "he fiddled his average to get more guest bookings", which is a shocking thing, and a wrong accusation, for an 'adult' to say. Should know better, but doesn't, and fortunately is once again out of tune to what most decent Redcar fans think. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RedcarRacer 228 Posted November 27, 2013 Unfortunately RR thinks that is accusation is the 'truth' and every one else is wrong. Even Spinny has said that RR was always against Redcar from the start, so it is a hatred born out of something else, not the accusation that "he fiddled his average to get more guest bookings", which is a shocking thing, and a wrong accusation, for an 'adult' to say. Should know better, but doesn't, and fortunately is once again out of tune to what most decent Redcar fans think. By the same token, just because you say it didnt happen doesnt mean it didnt. And if I was always against Redcar from the start, why would I attend every week? And who mentioned hate? Only you. I never hate any rider, but I can disagree with his signing - that doesnt mean hate. Deary me, do you want me to have a word with the nurse for you, think the medication really needs adding too...never mind soon be bedtime. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tsunami 10,219 Posted November 27, 2013 (edited) By the same token, just because you say it didnt happen doesnt mean it didnt. And if I was always against Redcar from the start, why would I attend every week? And who mentioned hate? Only you. I never hate any rider, but I can disagree with his signing - that doesnt mean hate. Deary me, do you want me to have a word with the nurse for you, think the medication really needs adding too...never mind soon be bedtime. Sorry that should have said "Lyons from the start". I defy you to produce any proof that Lyons ever contemplated, or did falsely lower his average deliberately, in order to get guest bookings. It's all in your mind and, fortunately, not in the minds of other Redcar fans. You are once again out of tune with your fellow fans. Don't let me keep you up then. Edited November 27, 2013 by Tsunami Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sidewinder1 18 Posted November 27, 2013 He wasnt the first rider to do it and certainly wont be the last and anyone one who thinks it doesnt is naive beyond belief.In a pay by performance, related sport. I don't believe average fixing, is anywhere near as prevalent as you make out. If you think, Jason Lyons would deliberately underperform and stop money from going into his pocket, then you want your bumps feeling. Egg had it bang on right. After several conversations with Jason, I know he was very concerned, about getting his bikes to work, with the new silencers. He obviously cracked it, because he had some inspired meetings, for Redcar and Newcastle. Sorry if that blows a hole, in your wildly dreamt up conspiracy theory. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RedcarRacer 228 Posted November 27, 2013 In a pay by performance, related sport. I don't believe average fixing, is anywhere near as prevalent as you make out. If you think, Jason Lyons would deliberately underperform and stop money from going into his pocket, then you want your bumps feeling. Egg had it bang on right. After several conversations with Jason, I know he was very concerned, about getting his bikes to work, with the new silencers. He obviously cracked it, because he had some inspired meetings, for Redcar and Newcastle. Sorry if that blows a hole, in your wildly dreamt up conspiracy theory. Oh no, you must be right then! No riders and especially not the god like Mr Lyons would dream of doing such a thing. And although all riders benefit from points scored, you may be surprised to learn that a number earn a set fee and that is the majority of their pay - which some promoters do to work out their finances in advance. I know a number of Redcar riders whose majority pay was set as a yearly amount. Some riders also perfer this method, rather than all or nothing on points related, which is a very old archaic system but is why you see so many guests riding so well as that is purely points for pay - like the aforementioned Mr Lyons in 2011. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sidewinder1 18 Posted November 27, 2013 Oh no, you must be right then! No riders and especially not the god like Mr Lyons would dream of doing such a thing. And although all riders benefit from points scored, you may be surprised to learn that a number earn a set fee and that is the majority of their pay - which some promoters do to work out their finances in advance. I know a number of Redcar riders whose majority pay was set as a yearly amount. Some riders also perfer this method, rather than all or nothing on points related, which is a very old archaic system but is why you see so many guests riding so well as that is purely points for pay - like the aforementioned Mr Lyons in 2011. Yeah right, more rumour and speculation, not so much as a fact in sight. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tsunami 10,219 Posted November 27, 2013 Yeah right, more rumour and speculation, not so much as a fact in sight. Fixed guarantees are few and far between. I have known guests get them, but when they feint injury after two rides, and get booked out of a meeting, you stop offering them. I always paid young reserves a guarantee of 3 points, tyre and fuel, which meant they had covered their costs, but never to a 1 to 5 rider. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ColinMills 1,728 Posted November 27, 2013 Unfortunately RR thinks that is accusation is the 'truth' and every one else is wrong. Even Spinny has said that RR was always against Redcar from the start, so it is a hatred born out of something else, not the accusation that "he fiddled his average to get more guest bookings", which is a shocking thing, and a wrong accusation, for an 'adult' to say. Should know better, but doesn't, and fortunately is once again out of tune to what most decent Redcar fans think. totally unbelievable..this person now knows what redcar fans thinks!....my god, should change name to google, you know it all... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bellers101 347 Posted November 28, 2013 Unfortunately RR thinks that is accusation is the 'truth' and every one else is wrong. Even Spinny has said that RR was always against Redcar from the start, so it is a hatred born out of something else, not the accusation that "he fiddled his average to get more guest bookings", which is a shocking thing, and a wrong accusation, for an 'adult' to say. Should know better, but doesn't, and fortunately is once again out of tune to what most decent Redcar fans think. What most Redcar fans think? You cant have spoken to many Lyons was a carpet beater early in the season until his average dropped then he became a world beater once the guest booking rolled in. Fact im afraid and I doubt you watched him at Redcar every week when he wasnt riding well! Sorry that should have said "Lyons from the start". I defy you to produce any proof that Lyons ever contemplated, or did falsely lower his average deliberately, in order to get guest bookings. It's all in your mind and, fortunately, not in the minds of other Redcar fans. You are once again out of tune with your fellow fans. Don't let me keep you up then. Out of tune? Trust me at least one of the management team gad their suspicions regards Lyons early season performances. Dont forget he started that season as PL number 1 so couldnt get guest bookings until his average dropped snd was then arguably Newcastles best rider! 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ColinMills 1,728 Posted November 28, 2013 What most Redcar fans think? You cant have spoken to many Lyons was a carpet beater early in the season until his average dropped then he became a world beater once the guest booking rolled in. Fact im afraid and I doubt you watched him at Redcar every week when he wasnt riding well! Out of tune? Trust me at least one of the management team gad their suspicions regards Lyons early season performances. Dont forget he started that season as PL number 1 so couldnt get guest bookings until his average dropped snd was then arguably Newcastles best rider! nice 1 bellers, its 1 thing having an opinion, but when people start talking as a spokesman for redcar fans, it typifies tsunami.. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
seanmuffe 105 Posted November 28, 2013 If Havelock senior remains in charge we will have the smallest budge and cheapest team possible, we got lucky with Dyer this year. Summers, Skidmore, Wilkinson, Ostergaard and Dilger will be back as most wont appeal to any other clubs and will therefore be cheap. cant even afford a cuppa tea Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tsunami 10,219 Posted November 28, 2013 Ha Ha. When you have ColinMills, Bellers and RR against you, you know you are on the right track. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bororedlion 24 Posted November 28, 2013 I remember when I first went to speedway in the late 70s at Cleveland park ,People used to say what a friendly bunch speedway fans were . How things have changed ! I find it absolutely appalling that so called fans question 2 riders who risk their lives riding in a sport that has its fair share of fatalities and both had their careers and livlihoods cut short through injuries on the track. Since the return of speedway to redcar i go to as many meetings home and away as possible as i am proud to support the team riders and club but no longer stop after the meetings as I used to in the Cleveland park days.They are many good people at Redcar but I do not wish to be associated with a certain element of the fan base at Redcar which i ultimately believe will be the down fall of this club as they try to drive yet another promoter out . I understand the frustration of some fans with the penny pinching and suppose Mr Havelock arriving every week by his yacht he moors on the Tees or His Private Jet with all this money he's Making off the fans is rubbing our noses in it . How ironic that the fans who wanted Glyn Taylor out and Brian Havelock in have now turned on him. I have no doubt that who ever runs Redcar Speedway will never please a certain section of the crowd. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
