RobMcCaffery 2,752 Posted February 5, 2014 Needs to sort his ilk's out I think as he is getting a tad confused. Cook's probably the poor old, er, chap who's having to write the new formula. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
john birch 85 Posted February 5, 2014 Reserves race reserves twice the second time possibly being ht.11 (which may also be the last race in which someone can go on a tac. ride). And also race second strings. Presumably second strings will race all comers and heat leaders race a mixture of their peers and second strings. However their is still a final choice from three formulas to be made, apparently. Couple of concerns: Second strings could end up with higher averages than heat leaders and could in theory be replaced as the playoffs draw near by heat leaders currently without a place. How are averages to be carried into next year worked out? If a tac. ride is allowed in the second reserves race that could potentially benefit the likes of Coventry, Kings Lynn and Lakeside (who have the best pairings) further. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
racers and royals 8,747 Posted February 5, 2014 Reserves race reserves twice the second time possibly being ht.11 (which may also be the last race in which someone can go on a tac. ride). And also race second strings. Presumably second strings will race all comers and heat leaders race a mixture of their peers and second strings. However their is still a final choice from three formulas to be made, apparently. Couple of concerns: Second strings could end up with higher averages than heat leaders and could in theory be replaced as the playoffs draw near by heat leaders currently without a place. How are averages to be carried into next year worked out? If a tac. ride is allowed in the second reserves race that could potentially benefit the likes of Coventry, Kings Lynn and Lakeside (who have the best pairings) further. No way will tac subs be allowed in a reserve race-ie 6 & 7 v 6 & 7 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waiheke1 4,295 Posted February 5, 2014 No way will tac subs be allowed in a reserve race-ie 6 & 7 v 6 & 7Not tac subs, but tac rides I.e double points, is I believe what was meant. Would make more sense to allow this in these heats than in the heats where secind strings meet reserves. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The White Knight 9,039 Posted February 5, 2014 Not tac subs, but tac rides I.e double points, is I believe what was meant. Would make more sense to allow this in these heats than in the heats where secind strings meet reserves. I don't think so. What are you trying to do - give the opposition extra points. Oh!! wait a minute.................................................................................. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
g13webb 4,254 Posted February 6, 2014 Reserves race reserves twice the second time possibly being ht.11 (which may also be the last race in which someone can go on a tac. ride). And also race second strings. Presumably second strings will race all comers and heat leaders race a mixture of their peers and second strings. However their is still a final choice from three formulas to be made, apparently. Couple of concerns: Second strings could end up with higher averages than heat leaders and could in theory be replaced as the playoffs draw near by heat leaders currently without a place. How are averages to be carried into next year worked out? If a tac. ride is allowed in the second reserves race that could potentially benefit the likes of Coventry, Kings Lynn and Lakeside (who have the best pairings) further. When it was announced, back in Nov 2013, that these new draft reserves were to have protected races, reservations were posted of all the issues that you have mentioned above. Am I right in thinking, that 3 months down the line, We are still no nearer the solution.????? Once the heat format gets altered to protect these riders, the existing CMA becomes, only a guide of riders ability dated to Oct 2014. Any comparisons made between the two, after that, is purely fictitious. I wouldn't worry too much about next year, The BPSA usually bring in new rules each year, that will in evidently throw a spanner in the works of everything that had happened before, deeming it useless. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krompa 236 Posted February 6, 2014 What a crap idea to protect reserves from meeting heat leaders. They are well protected in National League. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Steve Shovlar 10,439 Posted February 6, 2014 The idea is protect the public from watching strung out races. No good for anyone. However, the issue of second strings and hugely inflated averages is an issue, with some gaining an average much higher than they are usually capable off in the EL. Perhaps second strings should have their averages protected in some way. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krompa 236 Posted February 6, 2014 You guys overe there worry too much about avarages and level playing field etc. In Poland we simply put U21 riders in and it is working fine (I know they only have 3 programmed rides each). You can always increas points limit to protect second strings (on false avarages). Seems that British speedway is all about one word 'protect'. Protect BSI (from SEC), protect second strings, protect juniors... In my opinion 2 places in EL teams for young Brits was the best decision made in last 10 years. Now it is time to open eyes wider, cut schedule and use some kind of squad system to attract top guys back. IMO thats the only way to progress for British speedway (or to PROTECT it). 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RobMcCaffery 2,752 Posted February 6, 2014 (edited) You guys overe there worry too much about avarages and level playing field etc. In Poland we simply put U21 riders in and it is working fine (I know they only have 3 programmed rides each). You can always increas points limit to protect second strings (on false avarages). Seems that British speedway is all about one word 'protect'. Protect BSI (from SEC), protect second strings, protect juniors... In my opinion 2 places in EL teams for young Brits was the best decision made in last 10 years. Now it is time to open eyes wider, cut schedule and use some kind of squad system to attract top guys back. IMO thats the only way to progress for British speedway (or to PROTECT it). Polish speedway gets huge crowds and is awash with money, some of it 'clean'. In Britain we have to protect what's left before it is finally destroyed by the FIM and Polish greed. As for the young riders we do not have a proper training programme for youngsters so our junior talent is way behind yours. Also we don't have the money to invest in young talent like Polish clubs have. The 'protection' you decry is in fact segregation to make sure we don't have endless races with two riders almost a lap in front of the other two. It isn't a healthy situation and the state of British speedway is at a hopelessly low ebb. The last thing we need is someone attacking from outside who is fortunate enough to live in a country where speedway is much more prosperous. Mind you, it's about the only reason I'm envious of anyone based over there. Edited February 6, 2014 by rmc Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Humphrey Appleby 13,971 Posted February 6, 2014 (edited) Protect BSI (from SEC) Who in Britain wishes to protect BSI? The SGP was the final nail in the coffin for the British leagues, and whilst some sing its praises, I don't see anyone actually 'protecting' BSI. Whilst the cosy status quo at the top level was long overdue for a challenge, I wouldn't count on Onesport and its propagandists to be much of an improvement. Seem like just another bunch of dodgy promoters (of which speedway has plenty) who ignore the rules when it suits them. Edited February 6, 2014 by Humphrey Appleby 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krompa 236 Posted February 6, 2014 What is the best way to make people visit stadiums and sponsors to pump money into sport? Give them good product. How can you achive that? Bring stars back and let your own young stars grow. By letting young Brits in, there was step 2 done. And now people are crying that there will be too many races with top 2 way in front. Come on, gimme a break. Reserves only have 4 rides each with one reserves heat with all 4 of them in it. It will not affect quality of other races that much and young riders will finally have perfect opportunity to race top blokes (the only way to progress!). As much as I love British speedway (probably more than Polish), I have to say that it is funny how you guys make life harder. Instead of being happy with new rule that brought young local prospects into top league, now you cry that middle order riders avarages will be false (like it was really problem). That seems like a joke when I read opinions like that. Better take a look what top riders say. Most of them would be happy to have 15-20 meetings a year in UK but Elite League schedule is longer again (36 matches + playoffs)! Why no two number 1's per team allowed to get some big names back in? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The White Knight 9,039 Posted February 6, 2014 What is the best way to make people visit stadiums and sponsors to pump money into sport? Give them good product. How can you achive that? Bring stars back and let your own young stars grow. By letting young Brits in, there was step 2 done. And now people are crying that there will be too many races with top 2 way in front. Come on, gimme a break. Reserves only have 4 rides each with one reserves heat with all 4 of them in it. It will not affect quality of other races that much and young riders will finally have perfect opportunity to race top blokes (the only way to progress!). As much as I love British speedway (probably more than Polish), I have to say that it is funny how you guys make life harder. Instead of being happy with new rule that brought young local prospects into top league, now you cry that middle order riders avarages will be false (like it was really problem). That seems like a joke when I read opinions like that. Better take a look what top riders say. Most of them would be happy to have 15-20 meetings a year in UK but Elite League schedule is longer again (36 matches + playoffs)! Why no two number 1's per team allowed to get some big names back in? COSTS perhaps. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrew Postie Thompson 9 Posted February 6, 2014 COSTS perhaps. So those teams that have gone down the top heavy route can afford to have 3 top riders in?? I'm sure NKI and Bjerre are on good money at Lynn this season or they wouldn't have ridden this season but they are 2 genuine number 1's in the same team, so why can't every team have that set up?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Had Enough 233 Posted February 6, 2014 Why no two number 1's per team allowed to get some big names back in? Cos a lot of them don't want the hassle of the random EL fixture list? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
