montie 1,273 Posted April 28, 2014 If Halifaxtiger has it right (and I have no reason to doubt him) then Scunny would have made a handsome profit from the NL encounter yesterday. Charge everybody in a captive audience £2 extra - pay £10 a point (presumably) - score 20 points inc bonus - means you need a crowd of 100 to break even. They must have been quids in!! As a business model it rivals the Glazers' take over at Manchester United and reversing all the debt into the Club. Genius! Clearly pressed the 'post' button at the same time as HT but we have clearly arrived at the same conclusion. This can't be allowed next year! I know possibly you arnt the sharpest tool in the shed but id have a look at the maths!!! you honestly believe a club is quids in running double headers??? better off than stand alone meetings but far from quids in Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bullet 72 Posted April 28, 2014 An alternative way of looking at it is that sucess costs!!! I thought it was well known that in this league you pay your own riders and im sure i have read before about how the saint cost money winning the league (not necessarily due to how mcuh per point they were on but the more points hey scored due to winning the more it costs!) Yes kings lynn have drawn the "short Straw" having to have extra meetings aginst the stags in the cup but the stags dont go out to score as little as possible to make the other teams pay more!!! Although i would be tempted to for those teams who pay over the odds to make a point!! (not including bonus points) Standard pay of £10/Point for 70 points = £700 Non standard pay of £40/point for 70 points = £2800 even then lets take say buxton who are probably slightly stronger to start the season and assume they score 35 points meaning the winning team still have to pay for at least 55 points 55pts = £550 (£150 less) 55pt on £40 = £2200 (£600 less) Can see why over payers moan more!! even so a standard season 2 meetings against scunthorpe would cost a maximum of (£500 extra if you take 70pts opposed to 45 average) which equates to 50 customers at £10 spread over a season. (or as i see it less than the money made when cradley ad thier large following come to town ad also the low points payments needed when they batter you twice!!.) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ommer Mon 381 Posted April 28, 2014 I know possibly you arnt the sharpest tool in the shed but id have a look at the maths!!! you honestly believe a club is quids in running double headers??? better off than stand alone meetings but far from quids in How do you know that? I thought you were Montie not Mystic Meg. Quids in on the NL element of the meeting. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
montie 1,273 Posted April 28, 2014 How do you know that? I thought you were Montie not Mystic Meg. Quids in on the NL element of the meeting. How quids in Crowd about the same yesterday for normal single PL meeting you do the maths!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
proud panther 1,505 Posted April 28, 2014 Nobody is getting £40 per point in the NL bullet, so your example is irrelevant. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bullet 72 Posted April 28, 2014 Nobody is getting £40 per point in the NL bullet, so your example is irrelevant. And you know this for definite!! Ok do the sums with £30 a point it still stands the costs are not massively extra winning scoring 70 if you follow the official pay but multiply it by 2 or 3 or 4 times with "extra" then it does. Its nots scunthorpes issue if it costing teams due to those extras! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lucifer sam 3,953 Posted April 28, 2014 (edited) How do you know that? I thought you were Montie not Mystic Meg. Quids in on the NL element of the meeting. But the Stags' team is not run in isolation. It's part of Scunthorpe Speedway. What I've found out as the last couple of years, from helping out at Scunny, is that it's run as a proper club, and it's run along proper lines i.e. the overall activities at the Eddie Wright Raceway are intended to make money to allow further investment into the stadium. There's no-one throwing away silly money at Scunthorpe. If other clubs want to spend more money than they've got coming in that's up to them, but Scunthorpe Speedway is run as a business. I think Rob Godfrey and all those involved should applauded by the way that Scunthorpe Speedway has been built up from nothing over the last 10 years. All the best Rob Edited April 28, 2014 by lucifer sam 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
semion 2,192 Posted April 28, 2014 I am sure Speedway Promotions would look at the bigger picture, rather than a single meeting that may or may not turn a profit. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Daniel Smith 5,666 Posted April 28, 2014 Until yesterday, I'd have agreed with you (almost) completely. What has changed my mind is the funding of the clubs. In the EL & PL, the away team receives payment from the home team for each match based upon a standard amount. If a club pays over that, they meet it from their own gate receipts. In the NL, the clubs meet their own costs from home gate receipts alone. I thought the same but I was corrected that all riders fee's and expenses are paid by the club they ride for only now and it's been like that for a while in all leagues apparently Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Halifaxtiger 5,318 Posted April 28, 2014 (edited) An alternative way of looking at it is that sucess costs!!! I thought it was well known that in this league you pay your own riders and im sure i have read before about how the saint cost money winning the league (not necessarily due to how mcuh per point they were on but the more points hey scored due to winning the more it costs!) Yes kings lynn have drawn the "short Straw" having to have extra meetings aginst the stags in the cup but the stags dont go out to score as little as possible to make the other teams pay more!!! Although i would be tempted to for those teams who pay over the odds to make a point!! (not including bonus points) Standard pay of £10/Point for 70 points = £700 Non standard pay of £40/point for 70 points = £2800 even then lets take say buxton who are probably slightly stronger to start the season and assume they score 35 points meaning the winning team still have to pay for at least 55 points 55pts = £550 (£150 less) 55pt on £40 = £2200 (£600 less) Can see why over payers moan more!! even so a standard season 2 meetings against scunthorpe would cost a maximum of (£500 extra if you take 70pts opposed to 45 average) which equates to 50 customers at £10 spread over a season. (or as i see it less than the money made when cradley ad thier large following come to town ad also the low points payments needed when they batter you twice!!.) The point is even if you pay base rates you are going to get poleaxed financially. As I have said, King's Lynn will be looking at a bill of £1600 for two meetings against Scunthorpe. Because they have the KO Cup too, that's an astonishing £3,200 they are going to have to find from two NL meetings, which never get big attendances at NA. Heaven only knows how much they will lose and that is a financial burden that no NL club (however wealthy) needs. On the other hand, Scunny will pay out about £1,200 to their riders for all 4 meetings. If 500 people attend home meetings for the double headers, that's £3,000 extra they will make (I think it is £3 more for a doubler header) from running the NL matches. There will be extra expenses for running a double header, but will they be £900 per match more ? I thought the same but I was corrected that all riders fee's and expenses are paid by the club they ride for only now and it's been like that for a while in all leagues apparently I stand corrected; yesterday was the first time I heard that was the case. I am sure Speedway Promotions would look at the bigger picture, rather than a single meeting that may or may not turn a profit. When are you (and others) going to grasp the fact that unless NL clubs are viable (or reasonably so) there is no bigger picture. And it isn't a single meeting, its every one that the Stags have been in (home and away). I think my figures are reasonably fair. How do you think Buster Chapman is going to react to a £3,200 bill for four matches knowing that has to be met from two NL meetings at NA ? Even if all the other clubs are paying standard rates (and we all know ( just like Scunthorpe when they were a stand alone club) they aren't) they will cost the other teams around £15k over the season while they themselves will probably make money. I had no difficulty with what Scunny were doing until I learnt of the way riders were paid; I most certainly do now. One final point: I stayed to the end yesterday, because I was doing the texting and having a very interesting discussion about all matters speedway. There were very, very few left in the stadium at that time. Edited April 28, 2014 by Halifaxtiger 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bullet 72 Posted April 28, 2014 (edited) The point is even if you pay base rates you are going to get poleaxed financially. As I have said, King's Lynn will be looking at a bill of £1600 for two meetings against Scunthorpe. Because they have the KO Cup too, that's an astonishing £3,200 they are going to have to find from two NL meetings, which never get big attendances at NA. Heaven only knows how much they will lose and that is a financial burden that no NL club (however wealthy) needs. On the other hand, Scunny will pay out about £1,200 to their riders for all 4 meetings. If 500 people attend home meetings for the double headers, that's £3,000 extra they will make (I think it is £3 more for a doubler header) from running the NL matches. There will be extra expenses for running a double header, but will they be £900 per match more ? I stand corrected; yesterday was the first time I heard that was the case. that £3200 is misleading though as i was trying to point out. Say we had scored more so kings lynn averaged 55 points each meeting (at which point no body would be moaning) that would still cost them £2200. which is only £386 more than £2586 which they are likely to have to pay (taking standard points no bonus points and averaging the 3 scores 71,56 and 67 to get 64.7/meeting which makes 258 over the 4!) So real cost is £386! not a lot and after all they saved a few bob only having to pay £230 out when away at cradley! These costs even out over a season (although kings lynn are unfortunate they have had 3 of these 4 meetings already before many home meetings have been done so initially will be down) As for people saying we will be making money on this Say the crowd is 500 how many are adults which are the only customers who pay the £2 extra say 70% (probably high as there are a lot of U17`s there which would give £700 extra take off the £190 points money leaves £510 Out this £510 you then have Extra medical expenses to cover the second half of the double header Extra referees expenses for the second meeting Riders travel expenses general expenses for the extra time (petrol/trackstaff/electricity) Does not leave a lot if any and thats with oly 19pts at £10 a point Im sure it was quoted before that the stags usually cost around £40-50,000 a year to run (that was for last time the saints ran so might be a bit lower this year) that would take a lot of extra adults at £2 a head to cover over a season Edited April 28, 2014 by The Scunthorpe bullet Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
THE DEAN MACHINE 4,755 Posted April 28, 2014 (edited) This is the question. What is the point od the NL ? Is it ti train riders ? Or is it for fans entertainment ? If its for fans entertainment then scunny are short changing the fans of the league .if its for bringing on riders then it should be free to watch and riders should pay to ride. The league has always been a first step on ladder fir riders but it should never be at the expence of the entertainment for the paying public Edited April 28, 2014 by THE DEAN MACHINE 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bullet 72 Posted April 28, 2014 This is the question. What is the point od the NL ? Is it ti train riders ? Or is it for fans entertainment ? If its for fans entertainment then scunny are short changing the fans of the league .if its for bringing on riders then it should be free to watch and riders should pay to ride. Thats the problem now its both!! If it was just for fans entertainment there would only be standalone teams so you then wouldnt have a league. Even some standalones are now aligned to a higher team and with the EL draft system those remaining few might. Im surprised belle vue have not aligned with Buxton after they tried to run a second team themselves and pulled the plug Scunthorpe - Scunthorpe and Poole Cradley - (stand alone but some alignment to Wolves whether they want to or not??) Coventry - (Peterborough and Coventry) Mildenhall - Ipswich Kings Lynn - Kings Lynn Kent - Rye house Plymouth - Plymouth Buxton - Stand alone Stoke - Stand alone In the cup there is Leicester - Leicester So only 2 and a half standalone teams Also if you now look nearly all teams there also have a NJL or MDL team which they are aligned to where they do ride for experience and not paid Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
montie 1,273 Posted April 28, 2014 . The league has always been a first step on ladder fir riders but it should never be at the expence of the entertainment for the paying public Have you visited the EWR this year for a NL meeting? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
THE DEAN MACHINE 4,755 Posted April 28, 2014 Have you visited the EWR this year for a NL meeting?no ive only been to one NL Meeting so far Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
