RockingRobin 4 Posted October 5, 2014 Why shouldn't they be able to replace a suspended rider, did Liverpool play with 10 men when Suarez was banned. Liverpool did replace Suarez, but with another Liverpool player, not one borrowed from Everton or Man Utd etc ! That is the whole argument is it not ? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bruiser McHuge 589 Posted October 6, 2014 Liverpool did replace Suarez, but with another Liverpool player, not one borrowed from Everton or Man Utd etc ! That is the whole argument is it not ? The whole comparing to football thing is flawed anyway...top football teams have international players on the bench...if an international star is absent they are replaced by another international star.....speedway doesn't have the luxury of a spare number 1 rider waiting in a club's wings not riding for anybody else ready to step in when needed....currently , like it or not, the only really competitive way of replacing a missing number 1 rider is using a guest...it's happened for years and I cannot see it as a huge problem The only alternative is a squad system but I cannot see any way clubs can afford that at present...I am sure number 1 riders would want a retainer, probably equipment available if called upon at short notice.....it's expensive having one top rider , never mind having retained squad members...I can't see it being feasible at all As I said before I don't think a number 1 guesting for another number 1 is a problem...it's the number of missing riders throughout the team that's a problem...too many fixture clashes with too many double up riders and teams turning up with 3 or 4 guests in one meeting is where the problem is...that has got out of hand. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grachan 7,364 Posted October 6, 2014 Guests have been part and parcel of Speedway for as long as I have. But it seems to have got out of hand now. One problem is having a single double up rider instead of sharing in a position. Many people pointed out when this decision was taken that it would mean a lot more guests, and so has been the case. For heaven's sake - allow sharing in doubling up riders! People want to see their own riders. Then there's the reserves, some of whom are in ll 3 leagues so they also miss matches sometimes. Guest I can take, but stick to guest for speedway injuries only. that used to be the case. If a rider is riding for another club, suspended or whatever, then it should be R/R only. We need to keep a certain degree of limit on it. You can even have a guest with a higher average than the rider he is replacing, which seems rather daft. After all, if you tried to actually sign that rider you wouldn't be allowed to because it would put you over the limit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BritPete 625 Posted October 6, 2014 Alias number 30 something? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RockingRobin 4 Posted October 6, 2014 Why shouldn't they be able to replace a suspended rider, did Liverpool play with 10 men when Suarez was banned. Liverpool replaced Suarez with another Liverpool player, that's the whole point ! You don't seem to grasp my argument, do you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RockingRobin 4 Posted October 6, 2014 Oh dear.. Another first post troll. I have been a Speedway fan for over 50 years, and the idiotic guest rider system is worse now then its ever been. Why not follow the Elitserien and have squads, where is the problem there ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Daniel Smith 5,672 Posted October 6, 2014 I'm fully against squad systems in speedway. It's a system that would be more farcical than guests. Rider's will refuse to ride due to other commitments and I have no doubt that the richer clubs will suck up the better rider's with no intention of ever using them etc. Then throw in the affordability factor for the lesser teams. I believe there would be more clubs go bust than survive through squad systems. I would have an identical system to that of the current draft system. Start from scratch and combine every rider's average that rode in the Polish, Swedish, Danish and British Elite League's for 2014. Build teams to 40 for top 6 rider's and a draft rider at No'7 Any rider not in a teams top 1-6 can guest but only 4 times for 1 club in 1 season. That would allow clubs to find genuine cover for injured rider's. Also, it could temp rider's to the British leagues in the following seasons full time etc. The British League needs to really think outside the box, really stretch the imagination. We need to move our league forward. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Joe Beevers 207 Posted October 6, 2014 Problem is to mov forward costs money if talking about technology, presentation or advertising and we are not going to get money if fans keep dropping away. You could move the sport forward with better organsation such as simple things like letting paying public know when you host league finals or the rules on certain regs. Basics first perhaps. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Daniel Smith 5,672 Posted October 6, 2014 Problem is to mov forward costs money if talking about technology, presentation or advertising and we are not going to get money if fans keep dropping away. You could move the sport forward with better organsation such as simple things like letting paying public know when you host league finals or the rules on certain regs. Basics first perhaps. To attract more people the rules are irrelevant, the product has to be good to watch. Right now it isn't great to watch for the majority. The best way to get an exciting product is to have a league of equal ability. The only way we could do that is have an Elite League where no rider has an average less than 6. It's not financially possible. British Speedway is between a rock and a hard place. It needs stripping right back and starting again. And do you know what, a number of EL promoter's have wanted and tried to but the biggest stumbling block has actually been the Premier League promoter's not approving change. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Joe Beevers 207 Posted October 6, 2014 Rules are far from irrelevant. How can we attract new fans and sponsorships when they haven't a clue whats going on. Some of the elderly support have no idea why its changed so much whether it be league structure or replacing 10 point average riders with 6.5 average riders. Do agree with your bottom point however that it needs some sort of reemergance. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fromafar 10,396 Posted October 6, 2014 To attract more people the rules are irrelevant, the product has to be good to watch. Right now it isn't great to watch for the majority. The best way to get an exciting product is to have a league of equal ability. The only way we could do that is have an Elite League where no rider has an average less than 6. It's not financially possible. British Speedway is between a rock and a hard place. It needs stripping right back and starting again. And do you know what, a number of EL promoter's have wanted and tried to but the biggest stumbling block has actually been the Premier League promoter's not approving change. it's a joke to blame Pl promoters for the state of British Speedway.El promoters are doing their best to ruin Pl IMO Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevebrum 6,827 Posted October 6, 2014 it's a joke to blame Pl promoters for the state of British Speedway.El promoters are doing their best to ruin Pl IMO ALL promoters are too blame. They are all as bad as each other. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fromafar 10,396 Posted October 6, 2014 ALL promoters are too blame. They are all as bad as each other. Fair point. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikebv 10,324 Posted October 6, 2014 (edited) When you build teams in such a way that the top rider in each team is expected to score 10 - 15 points per match, then losing these riders means a massive hole has to be filled points wise. So what can be done? Have a higher team strength to lessen the impact of the No1 ? Not affordable? Have a lower team strength and remove the No1 rider/superstar? Drives people away as the best riders are no longer over here? For me one possible solution is instead of 'guests', teams can 'loan' riders for say a month ie if ward is out then nicholls can replace him for 28 days, however poole cannot race against belle vue for that to happen during those 28 days and nicholls couldn't ride for any other teams during that 28 day period. It would at least lose the 'guest' tag for wider credibility of the sport and also prevent the almost daily changes of guests on a 'horses for courses' basis which happens so often now, meaning riders guesting one night for a team then guesting for someone else against that same team the night after!!... Only the No1 can be replaced with a 'loan' rider however RR can also be used if teams so wish with the No2 and No3 riders taking all the No1 rides if the management of the team see fit. eg if no zagar then nicholls and cook could take his programmed rides. For other riders in the team missing, the rider above them in the averages can take one ride and the 2 riders below can take the other three, (maybe if the fifth rider in the averages is missing then the No4 rider could take two rides to remove the need for the reserves to take three rides?) Probably completely unworkable, however something has to replace the 'free for all' and 'tactical guest selections' which make a farce of the integrity of the competitions as they currently stand.. Edited October 6, 2014 by mikebv Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ciderman 100 Posted October 6, 2014 Why not let the remaining heat leaders take the rides, at least you will be watching your own riders Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
