More On The Decline Of British Speedway

[Shale Searcher 1,264]

So, what was this tactical feature, can't say I have ever come across it before? How did it work, and how far behind (I assume it was for the losing side to use) did you have to be..........??

[The White Knight 9,039]

 

The PL final was a classic example of just why tactical changes are very good for speedway. What's more important is that it is anything but the first or last time that that will happen.

 

Those who wish to rid the sport of tactical rides simply because their team has been on the receiving end of one - and I suspect that's a fair proportion- should be ignored completely.

 

Selfishness - whether from fans or promotions - is a blight on British speedway and one of the reasons why the sport is on its knees.

 

Any decisions regarding rulings should be made on what is best for speedway as a whole, not just because it does or doesn't suit a particular club.

 

Then that's a real shame.

 

I'll miss our attempts to wind Tsunami up and your reminiscences of Sunderland.

I have NO axe to grind here. I believe the Tactical Ride is wrong for BOTH Sides, Home or Away, the Team I support or the opposing Team. I am against it altogether.

 

I tell you what HT - let me know when you are visiting Newcastle and I will come. The BSPA have cut at least one Tactical Ride so they have met me half way and they have restored the Yellow/Black Helmet Cover. They have also got rid of Tactical Rides altogether in Two Legged Meetings. I will probably attend the Cup Meetings.

 

Just the Play Offs and ONE Tactical Ride to be got rid of now - and - Happy Days.

Edited November 19, 2014 by The White Knight

[scotchopper 312]

I wonder what you have said if Edinburgh had NOT got the chance to use the Tactical Ride and LOST!!!

 

I suspect that you might have taken a different view?

Of course I would have been gutted if we lost that is the nature of sport. For every winner there is at least one loser. Teams will always find a reason why they lost. Somerset thought heat 15 should be rerun or getting olly Allen injured at the wrong time. Last year Morris taking out Joe tabaka had an impact on the result.

 

As I say there is always a hard luck story but for excitement and drama you will struggle to beat that and I hope a lot of the newbies or returners come back as a result.

 

The Pl have now removed trs for any 2 leg event to stop the scenario you are taking about happening which is probably correct but ordinary league matches matches are better for it. Fair or not close matches are what we are after. No one really enjoys Home teams racking up 60 points every week where the passing is all one way, get some close matches and some last heat deciders.

[E I Addio 15,845]

No one really enjoys Home teams racking up 60 points every week where the passing is all one way, get some close matches and some last heat deciders.

Home teams that rack up 60 points will still rack up 60 points whether you have a t/r or not. Having a T/R would simply mean that the losing team would potentially score 36 in your scenario instead of 30, and the T/R woul have made no difference to the quality of the racing.

[scotchopper 312]

Of course there will still be teams that hit 60 regardless all I am saying is that it will keep some matches close and close matches provide drama and excitement.

 

It can also produce better racing, when matches are over I am sure some riders go through the motions but if the result of the match is still in doubt they can make the extra effort for an overtake

[strife 153]

Of course there will still be teams that hit 60 regardless all I am saying is that it will keep some matches close and close matches provide drama and excitement.It can also produce better racing, when matches are over I am sure some riders go through the motions but if the result of the match is still in doubt they can make the extra effort for an overtake

But they do that anyway - it's their job and if they think they can overtake they will do their best to. Riders go through the motions in some heats, in any match in any team, winning or not.

 

As stated above, the TR does not stop a team reaching 60 - it just adds artificial, unearned points on to the losing team's total.

 

The TS was a tactical way of trying to stop the opposition from scoring, while boosting your own score at the same time, which makes more sense (to me anyway).

 

The BSPA has had to change & restrict the TR so many times, they have proved to themselves it's a failure. One TR now serves no purpose - it should have been scrapped, and I wouldn't complain if no tactical changes are allowed.

[Trees 2,814]

To do away with the old tac sub rule was the right thing to do given it resulted in too many lower order riders not having their alloted rides.

I like the fact that, particularly in 2015, it is imperative to get an 8 1 to really do any good out of the tac ride, puts more pressure on and means the riders have to team ride.

[The White Knight 9,039]

To do away with the old tac sub rule was the right thing to do given it resulted in too many lower order riders not having their alloted rides.

I like the fact that, particularly in 2015, it is imperative to get an 8 1 to really do any good out of the tac ride, puts more pressure on and means the riders have to team ride.

And if the Team getting the 8-1 WINS the Meeting without the other Team having the chance to use the Tactical Ride because they have generally ridden better - that is FAIR is it?

 

I don't think so. :mad:

Edited November 21, 2014 by The White Knight

[Trees 2,814]

And if the Team getting the 8-1 WINS the Meeting without the other Team having the chance to use the Tactical Ride because they have generally ridden better - that is FAIR is it?

 

I don't think so. :mad:

So it was fair to take out the reserve in heat 8 when 6 points down, easily get a 5 1 so you're then just 2 points adrift, whereas with the TR you'll be 10 points down, very lucky indeed to get an 8 1 to end up 3 points adrift ..... so more chance for the losing team with the old tacs to WIN the meeting!!?

[SCB 0]

And if the Team getting the 8-1 WINS the Meeting without the other Team having the chance to use the Tactical Ride because they have generally ridden better - that is FAIR is it?

 

I don't think so. :mad:

You don't get 8 points from a TR. You get 3 points. With a tac sub you replace two riders who are going to score 1 with 2 riders who score 5, that's 4 more for you and 4 less for you opponents so a swing of 8 points.

[The White Knight 9,039]

So it was fair to take out the reserve in heat 8 when 6 points down, easily get a 5 1 so you're then just 2 points adrift, whereas with the TR you'll be 10 points down, very lucky indeed to get an 8 1 to end up 3 points adrift ..... so more chance for the losing team with the old tacs to WIN the meeting!!?

 

 

You don't get 8 points from a TR. You get 3 points. With a tac sub you replace two riders who are going to score 1 with 2 riders who score 5, that's 4 more for you and 4 less for you opponents so a swing of 8 points.

If you read any, or all of my Posts regarding Tactical Substitutes and Tactical Rides you would be aware of the fact that I am against BOTH ways of Fiddling/Contriving Results.

 

I couldn't give a damn about which is the best or worst - I couldn't care less.

 

THEY ARE BOTH UNFAIR AND WRONG!!!!

[scotchopper 312]

But they do that anyway - it's their job and if they think they can overtake they will do their best to. Riders go through the motions in some heats, in any match in any team, winning or not.

As stated above, the TR does not stop a team reaching 60 - it just adds artificial, unearned points on to the losing team's total.

The TS was a tactical way of trying to stop the opposition from scoring, while boosting your own score at the same time, which makes more sense (to me anyway).

The BSPA has had to change & restrict the TR so many times, they have proved to themselves it's a failure. One TR now serves no purpose - it should have been scrapped, and I wouldn't complain if no tactical changes are allowed.

Not arguing T/S are better or worse, I preferred t/s purely because it meant you got to see better calibre of riders more often. It does cost more and teams still hit 60 against tac sub's. My point that either are ways of making matches closer which is a good thing. it doesn't always work and I agree is artificial and unfair. But life isn't always fair and competitive competition is what we are after.

[strife 153]

So it was fair to take out the reserve in heat 8 when 6 points down, easily get a 5 1 so you're then just 2 points adrift, whereas with the TR you'll be 10 points down, very lucky indeed to get an 8 1 to end up 3 points adrift ..... so more chance for the losing team with the old tacs to WIN the meeting!!?

The BSPA could easily have placed restrictions on the use of the TS. They've proved the TR is a failure by having to make so many changes to that rule.

 

I wonder how many TS-inspired 5-1s actually happened in Heat 8, and how many contributed to a subsequent victory?

 

Still - here we are are tweaking the rules when we moan about the BSPA doing it, LOL

 

The sport has entrenched, institutionalised attitudes and views - it needs a root, trunk, branch & twig restructuring. Start with a blank canvas and remix as many metaphors as possible to come up with a fresh approach to a simple, exciting sport.

[scotchopper 312]

I would guess t/s were more likely to change a result purely because you only had to be 6 points down. Without the stats to back it up I would guess that the most regular tr produced a 6-3, 8-1s are very rare and when you are 10 points behind a 6-3 doesn't make a significant difference

[Vince 9,458]

I think this thread proves that the decline of British Speedway is entirely down to the tactical rules, remove them immediately and see the sport soar to unprecedented heights!