Kenny Carter Dvd.

[BWitcher 12,453]

Spot on waiheke.

 

When is the penny going to drop... Year after year of cost cutting has resulted in year after year of declining attendances.

[waiheke1 4,295]

But I thought all of this rubbish, including the GPs was meant to make Speedway more popular.

 

That worked well - didn't it?

 

Those things are largely responsible for increasing COSTS and driving even more people away from Speedway.

In 1980 there were 17 bl teams. In 1990 there were nine. In 2014 there were 10.

Would you suggest that indicates the decline starting before or after sky got involved with the sport and playoffs were introduced.?

The attendance at the odsal world finals in 85 and 90 were in the 30000s. Britsin hosted three world finals of the last fifteen. In comparison Cardiff attracts around 45k EVERY year. Would you suggest this indicates the decline of british speedway started before or sfter the gps?

Would suggest to me the chsnges have actually slowed or even reversed the decline.

The play offs I believe are the most attended domestic meetings of the season - suggest this indicates they have helped the sport.

[HenryW 1,178]

The play offs I believe are the most attended domestic meetings of the season - suggest this indicates they have helped the sport.

Whilst I agree with most of what you said, this last statement is a little more difficult to be so clear on.

 

I like the play-offs but the impact on crowds overall is quite difficult to judge. For some teams at the top, meetings that would previously have been critical for the title chase become meaningless little fillers whilst they wait for the play-offs to start.

Having said that, the fact that teams lower down the league continue to have something to race for late into the season probably more than makes up for this but as I say, it's hard to judge the overall impact on attendance across the entire league season.

[waiheke1 4,295]

I agree henry w, it's impossible to definitively prove the impact of play offs on attendances.

However, under the play off system there are significantly more "meaningful" fixtures. Previously by the half way stage of tge season normally only two or three teams had any hope of being champions. You'd have to assume that at least has a "neutral" impact on regular season matches, with an uplift then for the play offs.

[TonyMac 720]

Thankfully, I remember when the team that finished top of the league was the best, were accordingly crowned as champions, and the team that finished bottom was the worst.

 

It was a time when the general public widely accepted these routine issues as a simple fact of life and didn't need to be mollycoddled into thinking that their particular favourite team could somehow be transformed from also-rans into potential winners, without the need for counselling.

 

I guess we must ultimately blame Sky for this change of attitude. By artificially contriving an exciting finale, the play-offs have become good box office and usually generate excitement for both the live and TV audience. But do two or three end-of-season meetings really make a season?

 

Why can't people these days accept that finishing 2nd (or 10th) in the final league table isn't actually the end of the world?

 

After all, it's only sport.

 

There's always next year....

 

Anyway, I thought the Kenny Carter DVD wasn't bad.

Edited January 4, 2015 by tmc

[waiheke1 4,295]

I don't think you can blame/credit sky exclusively for play offs. I would imagine the promoters are keen on them too.

most major sports use them.

football is the only exception I can think of, but there u have european football toplay for and relegation to avoid, so there is plenty to play for in addition to the title.

[salty 2,202]

Agree with your post salty, apart from the last sentence. Speedway needs to offer value for money compared with rival options, this may actuslly mean spending more (be it on narketing, entertainment, facilities, track prep etc.) In order to provide a product which people will spend the better part of twenty quid on and feel they got their moneys worth.

out of interest, how much was tge ice hockey?

 

They were comps, but my eldest boy (who has no interest in going to any other sporting event) loved it so much we bought tickets for last night's match against Sheffield. 15 quid for adult, 8 for the kids. Was another great night - crowd was 5 1/2 thousand, which isn't too shabby.

 

Spot on waiheke.

 

When is the penny going to drop... Year after year of cost cutting has resulted in year after year of declining attendances.

My point of cost cutting was directed more to the costs of machinery and the kit. Because they have spiralled over the years then the sport (in the UK) has had to cut costs elsewhere.

[The White Knight 9,039]

Thankfully, I remember when the team that finished top of the league was the best, were accordingly crowned as champions, and the team that finished bottom was the worst.

 

It was a time when the general public widely accepted these routine issues as a simple fact of life and didn't need to be mollycoddled into thinking that their particular favourite team could somehow be transformed from also-rans into potential winners, without the need for counselling.

 

I guess we must ultimately blame Sky for this change of attitude. By artificially contriving an exciting finale, the play-offs have become good box office and usually generate excitement for both the live and TV audience. But do two or three end-of-season meetings really make a season?

 

Why can't people these days accept that finishing 2nd (or 10th) in the final league table isn't actually the end of the world?

 

After all, it's only sport.

 

There's always next year....

 

Anyway, I thought the Kenny Carter DVD wasn't bad.

I absolutely agree 100% with those comments.

 

Well said.

[fatface 2,554]

Thankfully, I remember when the team that finished top of the league was the best, were accordingly crowned as champions, and the team that finished bottom was the worst.

 

It was a time when the general public widely accepted these routine issues as a simple fact of life and didn't need to be mollycoddled into thinking that their particular favourite team could somehow be transformed from also-rans into potential winners, without the need for counselling.

 

I guess we must ultimately blame Sky for this change of attitude. By artificially contriving an exciting finale, the play-offs have become good box office and usually generate excitement for both the live and TV audience. But do two or three end-of-season meetings really make a season?

 

Why can't people these days accept that finishing 2nd (or 10th) in the final league table isn't actually the end of the world?

 

After all, it's only sport.

 

There's always next year....

 

Anyway, I thought the Kenny Carter DVD wasn't bad.

The thing is though Tony, it is 2015 not 1975. Whilst I believe there is plenty speedway can learn from the past, there are also innovations like the play-offs and the GPs where speedway has kept pace with changing times and the changing demands of consumers - sorry to drop into marketing-speak.

 

But sport is a business and speedway has to compete for business like every other sport. It's far more competitive that it has ever been. Football was always the UK's biggest sport, but it is now bigger than ever before and shows no signs of its saturation drying up. So speedway has to fight hard with sports like cricket, rugby league, rugby union, basketball and ice hockey for attention. All of these sports use play-offs and any sport that doesn't deliver exciting league competitions every year will simply drop off the radar for a public who - to be frank - has a shorter attention-span with a wider choice than ever before of sporting pleasures.

 

It's noticable that the major competitions that have evolved like the UEFA Champions League, Aviva Premiership, Rugby League Grand Final, Twenty20 Cricket are major successes of recent years. The ones that haven't changed like the FA Cup and Cricket County Championship have regressed.

 

I like to get as nostalgic as the next guy about speedway in the 1980s. But you have to be really honest, if we did go back to a 13 heat formula, straight league without play-offs and re-introduced the old World Final with Intercontinental, Overseas and other qualifiers, would the crowds come flocking back? Would we get better TV coverage? Would sponsors be interested?

Edited January 7, 2015 by falcace

[customhouseregular 1,651]

The thing is though Tony, it is 2015 not 1975. Whilst I believe there is plenty speedway can learn from the past, there are also innovations like the play-offs and the GPs where speedway has kept pace with changing times and the changing demands of consumers - sorry to drop into marketing-speak.

 

But sport is a business and speedway has to compete for business like every other sport. It's far more competitive that it has ever been. Football was always the UK's biggest sport, but it is now bigger than ever before and shows no signs of its saturation drying up. So speedway has to fight hard with sports like cricket, rugby league, rugby union, basketball and ice hockey for attention. All of these sports use play-offs and any sport that doesn't deliver exciting league competitions every year will simply drop off the radar for a public who - to be frank - has a shorter attention-span with a wider choice than ever before of sporting pleasures.

 

It's noticable that the major competitions that have evolved like the UEFA Champions League, Aviva Premiership, Rugby League Grand Final, Twenty20 Cricket are major successes of recent years. The ones that haven't changed like the FA Cup and Cricket County Championship have regressed.

 

I like to get as nostalgic as the next guy about speedway in the 1980s. But you have to be really honest, if we did go back to a 13 heat formula, straight league without play-offs and re-introduced the old World Final with Intercontinental, Overseas and other qualifiers, would the crowds come flocking back? Would we get better TV coverage? Would sponsors be interested?

Would the crowds come flocking back...I don't know but the crowds are not there now with all the changes to entice them. What is the average gate for an EL meeting and a PL meeting. Why, if the GP is the way forward does Cardiff only attract 40,000, or there abouts. Speedway has evolved but the gates are down. TV coverage is great, particularly for people like me but it is not encouraging new people to watch speedway live. Yes, sports that have not changed may have regressed, but speedway has changed and has still regressed. British speedway has to have regressed if the reigning world champion, the previous year's world champion and half of the world.s top riders shun our league.

[BWitcher 12,453]

Would the crowds come flocking back...I don't know but the crowds are not there now with all the changes to entice them. What is the average gate for an EL meeting and a PL meeting. Why, if the GP is the way forward does Cardiff only attract 40,000, or there abouts. Speedway has evolved but the gates are down. TV coverage is great, particularly for people like me but it is not encouraging new people to watch speedway live. Yes, sports that have not changed may have regressed, but speedway has changed and has still regressed. British speedway has to have regressed if the reigning world champion, the previous year's world champion and half of the world.s top riders shun our league.

 

A flawed answer.

 

Ask yourself how many fans the sport had lost BEFORE any changes were made.

 

The reality with speedway is, in the UK especially, it hasn't changed enough.

Edited January 7, 2015 by BWitcher

[customhouseregular 1,651]

We could go round and round for quite a while. Truth is there is merit in both our arguments. It is hard to deny though That the changes have not reversed the decline of the late80's/early 90's.

[fatface 2,554]

Why, if the GP is the way forward does Cardiff only attract 40,000, or there abouts?

If I told you in 1995 that you would have been able to ask that question in 2015, you would have been astonished.

 

It's indisputable that the sport has declined. We all agree on that. But it aint down to the play-offs or the GPs. I would argue the play-offs have slowed the decline of league speedway (many other factors have contributed to its overall decline, in which I give my thoughts on other threads in EL section). I would also argue that the GPs have reversed the decline of our World Championship, which was confined to Vojens, Pocking, Bradford, Amsterdam and the like.

[The White Knight 9,039]

The thing is though Tony, it is 2015 not 1975. Whilst I believe there is plenty speedway can learn from the past, there are also innovations like the play-offs and the GPs where speedway has kept pace with changing times and the changing demands of consumers - sorry to drop into marketing-speak.

 

But sport is a business and speedway has to compete for business like every other sport. It's far more competitive that it has ever been. Football was always the UK's biggest sport, but it is now bigger than ever before and shows no signs of its saturation drying up. So speedway has to fight hard with sports like cricket, rugby league, rugby union, basketball and ice hockey for attention. All of these sports use play-offs and any sport that doesn't deliver exciting league competitions every year will simply drop off the radar for a public who - to be frank - has a shorter attention-span with a wider choice than ever before of sporting pleasures.

 

It's noticable that the major competitions that have evolved like the UEFA Champions League, Aviva Premiership, Rugby League Grand Final, Twenty20 Cricket are major successes of recent years. The ones that haven't changed like the FA Cup and Cricket County Championship have regressed.

 

I like to get as nostalgic as the next guy about speedway in the 1980s. But you have to be really honest, if we did go back to a 13 heat formula, straight league without play-offs and re-introduced the old World Final with Intercontinental, Overseas and other qualifiers, would the crowds come flocking back? Would we get better TV coverage? Would sponsors be interested?

Probably not. once you have lost Supporters and Sponsors it is very, very difficult to get them back. But there is no way that the so called modernization of Speedway can be hailed as a success, sadly, because the regression continues Season on Season.

 

Also - at least British Speedway picked up some revenue (badly needed nowadays) from the old World Final - as far as I understand it gets bugger all from BSI for the GPs. That is, at least in part, where the rot started.

[BWitcher 12,453]

Probably not. once you have lost Supporters and Sponsors it is very, very difficult to get them back. But there is no way that the so called modernization of Speedway can be hailed as a success, sadly, because the regression continues Season on Season.

 

Also - at least British Speedway picked up some revenue (badly needed nowadays) from the old World Final - as far as I understand it gets bugger all from BSI for the GPs. That is, at least in part, where the rot started.

 

You are rewriting history again WK.

 

The rot had started a LONG time before the GP's started.