Humphrey Appleby 13,982 Posted January 23, 2015 How can the member sponsors comply if they haven't had the workshops/ training required? They should read the rules which were publicly posted on the government website. I'm quite sure most promotions were aware they were breaking them, but hoped the authorities would overlook it as they previously had. My previous employer had a number of work permit employees and I don't recall us ever having to attend a workshop, far less have visas cancelled. No doubt this is remedial action in response to widespread abuses. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Local Boy 36 Posted January 23, 2015 from home office spokesman on speeway gp site ..."The Home Office continually and routinely monitors all licensed sponsors to make sure that those applying to come to the UK for work are eligible and that a licensed sponsor genuinely wishes to take them on." How can the member sponsors comply if they haven't had the workshops/ training required? And yes, I can see that the BSPA would not have been big on ensuring they have followed the rule. I still think its a stupid time for the workshops, seems like after the horse has bolted. We are all obliged to follow the law of the land whether we have had training or not. Most other industries employ immigration lawyers to ensure they don't screw up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
arnieg 3,697 Posted January 23, 2015 I think you miss the point. The GBE qualification criteria isn't a government generated ruling. It was what the criteria that the BSPA set for a non-EU to gain a visa to work in the UK. It should be remembered that without the BSPA endorsement to the sponsor's form, the visa will not be issued. Now in the past, it would appear that the various government agencies responsible for checking the applications, have done so purely administratively, ie to ensure there was a sponsors form endorsed by the governing body. They were content to rely that the BSPA were applying THEIR OWN CRITERIA to the applications. With the change of political climate these applications become subject to a rigour review. Surprise, surprise the review established that there was endemic and institutional failure in the compliance of these rules. As a result the UKV&I have said to British speedway, sorry chaps you can't be trusted so we are cancelling all sponsor's licenses until you are retrained and prove that you know how to apply YOUR OWN RULES!!!! Presumbaly after these workshops, this criteria will now be applied with greater rigour, which explains Harkness' comment "........of ensuring that all ELIGIBLE RIDERS are able to compete in 2015....." So in summary, British speedway have been caught out misbehaving, and it's now got to stand on the naughty step. If can show to the rest of the class that it can behave, it will be allowed to join in again!!! A most elegant summary Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SCB 15 Posted January 23, 2015 It does prove what a few of us have known for years though - they can't follow rules! If they're going to ignore rules agreed with the government how many of their own do you think they ignore routinely? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Humphrey Appleby 13,982 Posted January 23, 2015 If a promoter misleads the BSPA by telling them that a request for a Visa is in order that is down to the promotion not the BSPA. Nice try, but the BSPA are also responsible for registering teams and transfer agreements, so could easily check whether a work permit rider is riding for the proper team. Sure they're ultimately not responsible for the consequences because they're not the employer, but it seems very remiss of the trade association to continually overlook flagrant breaches of the work permit conditions that they negotiated. Some might even call it negligent given the consequences for all members. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grachan 7,364 Posted January 23, 2015 An important fact I havent seen mentioned, ALL Visa/Sponsored riders Must be paid the average of their previous 12 weeks points money,each week, when and if they are injured or dropped by a team. This is to prevent them claiming benefits from the UK Tax payer. This has been the case since at least 2001 People here on a sport visa can't claim benefits. Why is it the BSPA's responsibility exactly? This problem belongs to the promotions that have clearly abused the system; it is not the Trade Associations responsibilities to monitor compliance it is the individual members responsibility. It is. It is the responsibility of the BSPA, as sports govening body, to approve visa eligibility and endorse applications. https://www.gov.uk/tier-2-sportsperson-worker-visa/overview Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Najjer 2,912 Posted January 23, 2015 This all came about when the UKV&Is called the BSPA to a meeting mid season, to show them a 2 year file of unlicenced riding in second halfs by young OZ riders contrary to their visitors visa. That's what opened it all up. Someone inUKV&I is very up to speedway practices, and complied a register of illegal rides, even when there was no payment and sometimes no crowd. It is still illegal. I'm led to believe, as mentioned previously, Sheffield dropping Roynon for Proctor last year didn't go down too well either! Probably half the problems that proctor was rumoured to have had previous to doing a deal for Sheffield for this season. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
toontrader 72 Posted January 23, 2015 Anyone else think the clubs and bspa are getting off remarkably lightly if there have indeed been repeated breaches? Our local takeaway was raided by UKVI. They were employing two overseas students part time who had a visa to study in this country but not work. The takeaway owner was fined £10,000 as he was responsible for ensuring that his staff had the relevant documents to work. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr Snackette 190 Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) The BSPA are not the employer the individual member, is therefore it is the individual members responsibility to comply with the immigration rules. If an individual member states they have complied and subsequently it is found they haven't that really isn't the BSPA's issue. Sadly you miss the point. The sponsor (the promoter) prepares the documentation for the rider they wish to employ. They pass it to the BSPA to check that it fulfils the criteria that has been agreed, and countersigns it to demonstrate that it is in order. So both the individual promoter and the BSPA are responsible. The FCA analogy isn't that far away. For the FCA read the UK V&I, the Compliance Dept. is the BSPA, and for promoter read Individual adviser. So in financial services the FCA will visit the firm's compliance department and review paperwork to ensure it's compliant. This may lead to check the understanding of individual advisers. In extreme cases where questionable practices exist, the firm's license will be suspended, until the firm's advisers have been retrained. This has happened to some of our largest banks and insurance companies. Another analogy is that the BSPA has been subject to the equivalent of an OFSTED inspection. They have found that the teachers (the BSPA) have failed in their responsibility to ensure that their students (the promoters) are meeting the required standards. As a result the school (British Speedway) has been placed in "special measures" as a failing school!!! Of course the real problem with both analogies is that in some cases the individual adviser / compliance officer, and the teacher / student can be one and the same person. Edited January 23, 2015 by Mr Snackette 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theknow 2 180 Posted January 23, 2015 I 100% agree with this. If we wish to work in Aus or the USA it is a nightmare so why should they just breeze in. They are not EU members so they should abide by the rules. They should read the rules which were publicly posted on the government website. I'm quite sure most promotions were aware they were breaking them, but hoped the authorities would overlook it as they previously had. My previous employer had a number of work permit employees and I don't recall us ever having to attend a workshop, far less have visas cancelled. No doubt this is remedial action in response to widespread abuses. Well said. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Leicester Lion 274 Posted January 23, 2015 It does prove what a few of us have known for years though - they can't follow rules! If they're going to ignore rules agreed with the government how many of their own do you think they ignore routinely?It makes me wonder about their degree of compliance with health and safety and tax/NI rules. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theknow 2 180 Posted January 23, 2015 It makes me wonder about their degree of compliance with health and safety and tax/NI rules.Don't think you can you use speedway and tax in the same sentence. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
montie 1,273 Posted January 23, 2015 I'm led to believe, as mentioned previously, Sheffield dropping Roynon for Proctor last year didn't go down too well either! Probably half the problems that proctor was rumoured to have had previous to doing a deal for Sheffield for this season. Im not sure how true the Proctor thing is but i think one of the two National League ones stand out Dudley dropped Sargeant a few years ago for Micky Dyer,how he got a working visa to ride NL so quick was a joke if he ever did Taylor Poole at Mildenhall had patrality then came into the Prem at Stoke on a 5 as he didnt have it Heeps to Mildenhall is another,claimed patrality when 15 i think--when u cant clain that until 17---yet Brady Kurtz had to wait a year as was only 16 some of the PL boys i must say stick out like a sore thumb.Penfold,O`Malley,Ringwood,Horwood,Fox,Davey etc At least now it looks to be sorted out 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grachan 7,364 Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) People here on a sport visa can't claim benefits. Although this does slightly contradict that. https://www.gov.uk/tier-5-temporary-worker-creative-and-sporting-visa/eligibility "You’ll also need all of the following: a certificate of sponsorship reference number £945 in savings - this is to prove you can support yourself and you must have had this in your bank account for 90 days before you apply You won’t need £945 in savings if your fully approved (‘A-rated’) sponsor has stated on your certificate of sponsorship that they’ll certify your maintenance and that you won’t claim benefits during your stay." This, I assume, is what barncooseboy was referring to earlier. Although I still don't see how they could claim benefits when it says here: https://www.gov.uk/tier-5-temporary-worker-creative-and-sporting-visa/overview "You can’t: get public funds start your own business" Because benefits are public funds. Edited January 23, 2015 by grachan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
barncooseboy 237 Posted January 23, 2015 When you take on a work permit rider you are in effect 'adopting' a new member of your family with all the side effects that can throw up 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
