Coventry V Poole 1/6/15

[orion 7,621]

Horton would have budgeted for the season and would expect decent cash flow coming in for a Poole match. That didn't happen. So more than likely we will be running at a loss for the season unless a big crowd we usually get for Poole turns up for another fixture (doubtful).

And ? I am sure any team who ride v Poole at home get one of there biggest crowds but sky are still going to show Poole away at times ...As I said Horton signed up to the rules of the tv he also choose to charge full admission for a sky match .

[markyb 323]

Alas, remember that British Speedway seems to be run by the the equivalent of the Kray twins - AKA the Russell brothers - unless you want to be part of an extension to the M25 motorway, IMO not much point in questioning what is going on.

 

At least football currently has the FBI to investigate the wrong doings in that sport - whereas I reckon the WI ( my granny is a proud member ! ) are possibly doing a likewise job for this sport.

[The Voice Of Reason 2,124]

Re: Arya's further (completely misinformed) resonse:

 

1.

I may not have been spot on with my estimates but I don't expect they were very far off. My programme profit margins will have been spot on.

 

- Ermmmmmm....actually, you are so far wide of the mark by.....around 200%.

 

2.

Our business does very well thank you! It's a good thing we don't have arrogant closed minded people working for us

 

- I can only assume that your business is not selling your headgrear!

 

3.

The point I was making from square one, which seems to have gone well over your head was; yes Coventry will have made a loss that night, yes it will have affected their cash flow and is far from ideal, but it really isn't as bad as some people are making out. The play offs will bring a big pay day for the Coventry management and this blip in their season will quickly be recovered from.

 

- But your initial financial forecasts are based upon pure speculation and fiction; not FACTS. Hence my respose.

 

4.

Coventry will not be leaving the Elite League next season, it is simply a case of the management wanting to strike a blow back as they have been disadvantaged and are clearly rather bitter about it.

 

- Again, as you are disagreeing with Coventry's Promotion, maybe, just maybe, you'd like to state FACT rather than rhetoric?

 

5.

If you have more accurate information on Coventry's costs for the evening then it would be far more useful to contribute rather than to make ambiguous comments and jabs.

 

- With all due respect, it is not ME that is stating the financial loss v subsequent recompense arguement, but YOU. Prove your words with evidence or fact(s) - not hyperbole.

 

I am asking YOU to substantiate YOUR statements. Quite clearly, as you have provided (given your responses) MINIMAL understading of the costs incurred by a Speedway Promoter, I am asking YOU to prove your previous rhetoric upon this particualr thread.

 

If you can't, then basically, don't even bother to bore us with your repititive and meaningless rhetoric any longer. There's a good girl. x

Edited June 11, 2015 by The Voice Of Reason

[mdmc82 2,878]

 

Yawn.

 

Let's get back to my original point, as I'm bored of bickering with grumpy old men now.

 

£10,000, although no laughing matter, is not that much to lose considering their position in the league and the amount they are likely to generate from the play offs. Every club knows exactly how it works when the Sky cameras are in town and thats a risk you take when you agree to broadcast your match. You cannot set a precedent of being happy to ride on slop (e.g. when Coventry won the 2010 title almost entirely thanks to the poor condition of the track) and then complain about it when it goes against you.

 

It's unfortunate, but it's not the end of the world and it's not the end of Coventry Bee's in the Elite League or featuring in future Sky matches. Nor will be the end of Mick and Garry's public tantrums.

 

Lovely talking to you old chap x

Arya if I was you I would stop now before you make yourself look any worse than you already have. Yes you support Poole but if you take off your rose tinted glasses then even you must see that what happened Monday was wrong and had a huge financial effect on Coventry Speedway. Imagine if it had been the other way round, I'm sure then you would have been infuriated.

 

To make up silly sums of how much they made or pay for stadiums etc when you really have no idea just makes you look silly

Edited June 11, 2015 by mdmc82

[Star Lady 5,400]

 

Time to get over it and move on I think. Nothing will come of Coventry's complaint, they will continue to compete in the Elite League, they will continue to host Sky matches and hopefully this will be the end of Havvy's embarrassing public outbursts.It has been the other way around many times in the past, and will happen again I expect. The reward obviously outweighs the risk or the clubs wouldn't agree to broadcast there, would they? Maybe it's time to just accept that Coventry were dealt a bad hand, everything went against them that night and now they're over reacting a little.

Maybe just maybe Coventry breaking the ranks of we will just shut up and put up will be the catalyst for ALL the clubs collectively to tell Sky via Go Speed that sometimes the sport would benefit from Sky/Go Speed losing money instead of the clubs and the fans.

 

I know I'm in a dream world but hey the sun is shining so why not?

[foreverblue 6,116]

 

Yawn.

Let's get back to my original point, as I'm bored of bickering with grumpy old men now.

 

£10,000, although no laughing matter, is not that much to lose considering their position in the league and the amount they are likely to generate from the play offs. Every club knows exactly how it works when the Sky cameras are in town and thats a risk you take when you agree to broadcast your match. You cannot set a precedent of being happy to ride on slop (e.g. when Coventry won the 2010 title almost entirely thanks to the poor condition of the track) and then complain about it when it goes against you.

 

It's unfortunate, but it's not the end of the world and it's not the end of Coventry Bee's in the Elite League or featuring in future Sky matches. Nor will be the end of Mick and Garry's public tantrums.

 

Lovely talking to you old chap x

Over many years on this forum a lot of us including me have tried to have a reasonable discussion with the voice of no reason but he always resorts to trying to make out he is of a higher intellect and trying to gain kudos by trying to make out us mere mortals are stupid and trying make out he knows more than the rest of us when in truth he doesn't which is why he harps on about facts but doesn't actually give any of his own and can't even spell, what's headgrear!!

Edited June 11, 2015 by foreverblue

[mdmc82 2,878]

 

Umm, I'm sorry to rain on your parade but it was actually you who quoted £10,000 as being their loss for the night. So either that figure is correct or you really have no idea. Sorry to make you look so silly.

 

And this is nothing to do with Poole, it's all to do with the bitter management and fans of Coventry who are acting like they are the first club to draw a short straw in speedway. What happened on Monday may be wrong but it's been happening for years and everybody knows the score when Sky is in town. Like I said before, which you're keen to ignore, you cannot set a precedent of being happy to ride on slop when it goes in your favour and then start throwing your toys at everyone else in British speedway when it doesn't.

 

Time to get over it and move on I think. Nothing will come of Coventry's complaint, they will continue to compete in the Elite League, they will continue to host Sky matches and hopefully this will be the end of Havvy's embarrassing public outbursts.

 

It has been the other way around many times in the past, and will happen again I expect. The reward obviously outweighs the risk or the clubs wouldn't agree to broadcast there, would they? Maybe it's time to just accept that Coventry were dealt a bad hand, everything went against them that night and now they're over reacting a little.

😴😴😴😴😴😴😴😴💤💤💤💤💤 (sigh)

[Midland Red 2,383]

The point I was making from square one, which seems to have gone well over your head was; yes Coventry will have made a loss that night, yes it will have affected their cash flow and is far from ideal, but it really isn't as bad as some people are making out. The play offs will bring a big pay day for the Coventry management and this blip in their season will quickly be recovered from.

I cannot believe that you continue to make this comment, despite others trying to have explained it to you - so I'll try

Coventry, assuming they make the play-offs, will not generate from that achievement any extra funds/profit to recover the losses they clearly made over the debacle of the Poole/Sky meeting

If the weather had been good, and the attendance on that night had been as big as expected, or budgetted for, the income from the play-offs will be still be the same - therefore, those losses will not be recovered

[it would be interesting to know, by the way, if any figures for losses on that night are losses against break even (ie the cost of the debacle) or losses against expected/budgetted profit]

Whatever the figure, £10,000 is different things to different people - to me it's a vast sum, to Richard Branson a drop in the ocean - to virtually all speedway promoters in the UK, I suggest it is a big sum - so for you to say that £10,000 "isn't that much money" is a very poor, misleading comment

Mr Horton is probably more keen for the meeting to be rerun as it would be the only opportunity to recover some, if not all, of the losses he has incurred

Remember, the losses are due to the (dis)organisation of GSI (with Sky) over the running of televised meetings in bad weather, and this was a meeting virtually everyone agrees should never have taken place

 

As far as the league points are concerned, it is perhaps time to take stock of how they are awarded in rain-offs

At present, a home win brings 3 points for the home side - after 15 heats

It cannot be right that 3 points are also awarded at the "cut-off" stage of 10 heats, if the home side could still lose, or draw, a meeting had it gone the full distance

Similarly, an away win brings 3 points (1-6 match points up) or 4 points (7+ points up) - if those are the scores at the "cut-off stage" of 10 heats, they could still be overturned if the meeting had gone the full distance

I do not offer an alternative league points suggestion, merely to say that the rewards at heat 10 should not be the same as at heat 15

 

My stance on the meeting on 1 June is that the responsibility/blame lies squarely with GSI/Sky, which includes the actions and inactions of the meeting steward, and absolutely no blame can be attached to either team manager [since clearly with the regulations as they are, the winning team manager will almost always want to get to heat 10] or to the riders - the only time I would blame a team manager is risking the safety of a rider, and the only time I would blame a rider is risking his safety, of that of another rider

 

Hopefully, some good will come out of all this - it's time for a full-blown review on how UK speedway operates, and perhaps a 2015 version of Nelson Mills-Baldwin should be brought in as soon as possible

Edited June 11, 2015 by Midland Red

[foreverblue 6,116]

 

I cannot believe that you continue to make this comment, despite others trying to have explained it to you - so I'll try

Coventry, assuming they make the play-offs, will not generate from that achievement any extra funds/profit to recover the losses they clearly made over the debacle of the Poole/Sky meeting

If the weather had been good, and the attendance on that night had been as big as expected, or budgetted for, the income from the play-offs will be still be the same - therefore, those losses will not be recovered

[it would be interesting to know, by the way, if any figures for losses on that night are losses against break even (ie the cost of the debacle) or losses against expected/budgetted profit]

Whatever the figure, £10,000 is different things to different people - to me it's a vast sum, to Richard Branson a drop in the ocean - to virtually all speedway promoters in the UK, I suggest it is a big sum - so for you to say that £10,000 "isn't that much money" is a very poor, misleading comment

Mr Horton is probably more keen for the meeting to be rerun as it would be the only opportunity to recover some, if not all, of the losses he has incurred

Remember, the losses are due to the (dis)organisation of GSI (with Sky) over the running of televised meetings in bad weather, and this was a meeting virtually everyone agrees should never have taken place

 

As far as the league points are concerned, it is perhaps time to take stock of how they are awarded in rain-offs

At present, a home win brings 3 points for the home side - after 15 heats

It cannot be right that 3 points are also awarded at the "cut-off" stage of 10 heats, if the home side could still lose, or draw, a meeting had it gone the full distance

Similarly, an away win brings 3 points (1-6 match points up) or 4 points (7+ points up) - if those are the scores at the "cut-off stage" of 10 heats, they could still be overturned if the meeting had gone the full distance

I do not offer an alternative league points suggestion, merely to say that the rewards at heat 10 should not be the same as at heat 15

 

My stance on the meeting on 1 June is that the responsibility/blame lies squarely with GSI/Sky, which includes the actions and inactions of the meeting steward, and absolutely no blame can be attached to either team manager [since clearly with the regulations as they are, the winning team manager will almost always want to get to heat 10] or to the riders - the only time I would blame a team manager is risking the safety of a rider, and the only time I would blame a rider is risking his safety, of that of another rider

 

Hopefully, some good will come out of all this - it's time for a full-blown review on how UK speedway operates, and perhaps a 2015 version of Nelson Mills-Baldwin should be brought in as soon as possible

You say league points should be adjusted for only doing 10 heats which i can see the logic in but how is it these points are only raised when Poole are involved?

Edited June 11, 2015 by foreverblue

[SCB 15]

You say league points should be adjusted for only doing 10 heats which i can see the logic in but how is it these points are only raised when Poole are involved?

Ignore that Poole (and Coventry) were involved this time. Is it right that meetings get to heat 10 and are called off? It was agreed, it seems, by the people controlling the meeting around about heat 8 that they'd get to heat 10 and call it off. If they knew at that point the track was dangerous, shouldn't it have been called off then? Not pushing through 2 more heats.

[foreverblue 6,116]

Ignore that Poole (and Coventry) were involved this time. Is it right that meetings get to heat 10 and are called off? It was agreed, it seems, by the people controlling the meeting around about heat 8 that they'd get to heat 10 and call it off. If they knew at that point the track was dangerous, shouldn't it have been called off then? Not pushing through 2 more heats.

I thought the old 12 heat rule was fair at least you get better value 10 heats for 18 quid is a rip off. Can't believe i actually went knowing it would be a crap meeting or rained off. i think i need to see a doctor!!

[Midland Red 2,383]

You say league points should be adjusted for only doing 10 heats which i can see the logic in but how is it these points are only raised when Poole are involved?

 

This has nothing to do with Poole or Bees or any other specific team - it is about overall fairness and common sense

I have never agreed with the present rules, even when Bees have picked up heat 10 cut-off points or Poole or any other team have lost out

Couldn't give a fig who is involved - let's get the bloomin' thing right!

[GoFastTurnLeft 74]

 

This has nothing to do with Poole or Bees or any other specific team - it is about overall fairness and common sense

I have never agreed with the present rules, even when Bees have picked up heat 10 cut-off points or Poole or any other team have lost out

Couldn't give a fig who is involved - let's get the bloomin' thing right!

And what would you suggest as a solution? I'd genuinely like to know as the current system is far from ideal, but I can't see a solution that would help everyone. Lets put a pin in which teams were involved for a second. The facts were, over half the meeting had been completed before people stopped riding for safety reasons* and one team was beating the other on merit. We can now either

 

A: call the meeting off, points stand. Winning team pick up the points, losing team feels shortchanged

 

B: Re-run the meeting, thereby giving the losing team a free do-over, winning team feels shortchanged

 

The only thing that would seem remotely fair IMO is to re-run the meeting, but give the previous losing team some kind of point deficit as a handicap.

[SCB 15]

I think heat 12 is a fair compromise for full points and to give the fans fairer value for their money

It doesn't matter if it's 6,8,10,12 or 14. If a track in dangerous and someone says, "just two more heats to get a result" they have sent riders out on a dangerous track, that is wrong.

[foreverblue 6,116]

It doesn't matter if it's 6,8,10,12 or 14. If a track in dangerous and someone says, "just two more heats to get a result" they have sent riders out on a dangerous track, that is wrong.

Depends on your view of dangerous, one riders dangerous is another man's not dangerous, Harris thought it wasn't dangerous and Joonas had a different view.