John Cook Talks A Lot Of Sense

[The White Knight 9,039]

Well done to John Cook in this weeks Speedway Star, at last a promoter who has taken his head out of the sand and spoken some sense. A cut down version of his article is as follows.

 

"Speedways hard core fans are losing heart with the sport and he feels their voices need to be heard, even if promoter's don't feel comfortable hearing what is being said. This sport is slowly losing it's hardcore and it's taking the mickey out of it's hardcore if it doesn't believe these problems aren't being felt by fans turning away from the sport. Anyone who thinks their club and the business as a whole is worth it's salt should take time to at least twice a year, meet their fans and talk openly to them. They should take the criticism because a lot of it is justified. There needs to be direct input from the fans at the highest level. Those in power have to listen to the fans. The fans are disillusioned and their patience is being tested."

 

At last a promotor who has taken his head out of the sand and said what many fans feel and why like myself after over 50 years of and on, following speedway, I don't go anymore and only watch it on TV.

Well I haven't been to a Speedway Meeting for about a year now.

 

I will not return until the 'Double Points' fiddle is history. As soon as it is removed - I will return, until then then - I am a Television viewer of Speedway only.

 

If speedway fans can't have a say on what is wrong with the sport, how are clubs going to mend what they are doing wrong?

 

John Perrin, Belle Vue promoter for two decades, used to tell fans "If you don't like it, don't come," when fans had the face to complain to him personally. Fans stopped coming.

 

If fans don't moan, and just stop attending, clubs are unaware.

 

Speedway seems so out of time right now. No one is really sure who is their rider, the season is set up with meaningless matches that are designed for the end-of-season Grand Finale of the Play-Offs.

 

It may help increase the coffers for those that make the last two, but what has it done to gates throughout the season? You know, just by the whiff of it, that some clubs are decreasing their scores, so they can pull out a plum signing at the exact moment... It is like the wrestling lark, when you know the guy getting laid-into will come good.

 

Speedway seems to have gone the way of those cheap Channel 5 programme, more there for a novelty kick than anything really serious.

 

But, sadly, the way it's going... the only ending I can see, is a CH5 programme called Speedway Riders On Benefits.

 

You can't sell a sport like speedway on majority of meaningless matches that are kick abouts for two end of season bashes.

Never a truer word spoken.

 

The 'Play Offs' is another one of my hates. As I have said many times - it often cheats the League Champions out of the League Championship for some other undeserving Club.

 

No meeting for the last couple of weeks due to the SGP. Definitely needed a meeting last night, else massive gap in fixtures

 

Impossible to predict who's going to be in the U-21's, turned out Nielsen & Fricke were selected! Stead in original declaration would've been present

 

Only Cook was originally going to miss this meeting

................ and some people say that the Grand Prix System has no effect on British Speedway. :rolleyes:

[E I Addio 15,845]

Actually Jon Cook must be as thick as two short planks.

 

To 'reveal' that fans at the public meeting had expressed a wish for more frequent meetings.

When he is the promoter of a club that is only able to put on one farcical challenge match, masquerading as a League fixture, in a five week span.

And the guy heeds to be told that by others !

 

And to have the report trailed and anticipated as some sort of Gettysburg address.

Give me strength

 

He is as culpable as all the other promoters in all the ills and yet he is portraying himself as some sort of evangelist for change.

 

Me thinks Jon lives in Cook-Koo land.

.

Perhaps it's you that is as thick as two short planks and living in cloud cuckoo land for not checking the calendar and jumping in feet first.

 

A quick look at the calendar and fixture list will reveal that one meeting in five weeks is the result of two back to back GP's a week reserved for rain-offs and the SWC. Most EL clubs are in more or less the same situation with intermittent meetings, to the frustration of all fans but one of the problems with modern Speedwáy is that domestic fixtures are wrecked by the SWC, the GP's, World u/21's and the various qualifiers.

 

He didn't say he needed to be told by others that the fans wanted more meetings. Talking in the context of the club having its own stadium , which now seems to at least be a possibility the complete sentence which you have chosen to misquote says "a regular race night , certainly a Saturday, IF WE HAVE OUR OWN HOME (I hope you read that bit), and more meetings are an absolute requirement from the views expressed" That was the context of the meeting, which lasted two hours, and which the report is only a summary.

 

Then we're do you get the idea the report was trailed? The Speedwáy Star article says they contacted him , not the other way round as you imply then said "Cook politely declined to talk about the meeting and says he will update the fans in the race day programme" How is that, by any stretch of the imagination,trailing the report like some sort of Gettysburg address as you claim?

 

On what basis is he portraying himself as an evangelist for change ? The context is about plans for a new stadium without being beholden to a stock car club.

 

I agree Cook is no angel, and I go along with what had been said for example about the crazy man on man KO cup races, but the other side of the coin is that too many people jump on the keyboard with wild exgerrations and miss the point of what is being conveyed, which takes the discussion nowhere.

 

It's interesting that of all those who jumped on the bandwagon of critcism not a single one has dais something like " I hope for the fans sake Lakeside get a new stadium , Speedwáy cannot afford to lose another club" but no interest in that aspect has been expressed at all. The unfortunate truth is thst the usual suspects who are not capable of sensible adult constructive criticism are as guilty of self interest as the body they love to complain about.

[Humphrey Appleby 13,960]

A quick look at the calendar and fixture list will reveal that one meeting in five weeks is the result of two back to back GP's a week reserved for rain-offs and the SWC. Most EL clubs are in more or less the same situation with intermittent meetings, to the frustration of all fans but one of the problems with modern Speedwáy is that domestic fixtures are wrecked by the SWC, the GP's, World u/21's and the various qualifiers.

And yet we're constantly told the SGP is good for the sport.

 

1 meeting in 5 weeks is a terrible business model, regardless of who's fault it is, and in fact a lot of speedway's problems are beyond its own control. However, it needs to find a model where fans can be reasonably assured of at least one meeting every couple of weeks, where all the advertised riders turn-up unless injured (and I mean really injured).

The 'Play Offs' is another one of my hates. As I have said many times - it often cheats the League Champions out of the League Championship for some other undeserving Club

Well I hate 'playoffs' because speedway isn't played and its a misuse of the English language.

 

However, plenty of sports have a Championship Finals system and I don't really have a objection provided higher placed teams get given some sort of advantage - whether a bye, home advantage or a second chance if they lose in the first round. In speedway it would also be possible to give some sort of handicap score.

[weatherwatcher 664]

It would be nice to see the team that actually finished top of the leagues get some sort of recognition for actally winning the league, but no, they have to go and take the top four finishers and after that who ever wins is declared the league chamoion. So the ppor sod who has done all the hard work all year can then end up falling at the last hurdle and finishing fourth. If they want to carry on with this then at least call the team that wins the league winner and the four teams that ride against each other, at least lets have it as a seperate tounament with a cup, but not to see who wins the league.

Somehow it despoils all the hard work done throughout the year, by the true wining team.

How would the punter of the Grand National feel if they had the top 4 horses over the line having to race off against each other as many times as the speedway teams do to be called the Grand National winner. They would be up in arms.

But the majority of speedway supporters, seem to love this stupid system that, was drempt up by the BPSA and SKY.

Edited May 31, 2015 by weatherwatcher

[E I Addio 15,845]

And yet we're constantly told the SGP is good for the sport.

1 meeting in 5 weeks is a terrible business model, regardless of who's fault it is, and in fact a lot of speedway's problems are beyond its own control. However, it needs to find a model where fans can be reasonably assured of at least one meeting every couple of weeks, where all the advertised riders turn-up unless injured (and I mean really injured).

.

I totally agree with that, but I don't see any answer while the EL remains in its present form . I love top league racing and would hate to see it go but it may be inevitable. Jon Cook said in his notes that he and Stuart Douglas have no interest in PL in its present form but would be attracted to to some kind of expanded regional competition. I don't quite know what he had in mind but that may well be where it all finishes up.

[Humphrey Appleby 13,960]

How would the punter of the Grand National feel if they had the top 4 horses over the line having to race off against each other as many times as the speedway teams do to be called the Grand National winner. They would be up in arms.

It's not really a fair comparison. The Grand National is a one-off event itself, and one that's something of a lottery in terms of who comes out the winner.

 

I think it's reasonable for people to have different views on the righteousness of 'playoffs', even if they work very well in highly successful sports like the NFL, but I don't see they're the reason why fans have drifted away from the sport in droves. This is the problem with fan forums - the focus ends up on minutiae which are not the primary reasons for the sport being in an ever decreasing circle.

Edited May 31, 2015 by Humphrey Appleby

[orion 7,615]

 

How would the punter of the Grand National feel if they had the top 4 horses over the line having to race off against each other as many times as the speedway teams do to be called the Grand National winner. They would be up in arms.

But the majority of speedway supporters, seem to love this stupid system that, was drempt up by the BPSA and SKY.

Fans all over the world in loads of sports love play offs ...yet another myth that somehow it's only be bad in speedway ...yet again when comes to double points as I said before those same fans who say they don't go anymore were quite happy to go when you could have unlimited tac subs etc . Speedway has many problems but most of reasons tend to be stupid ones or old people wanting the rules to be the same when they used to go even thou those rules were just as daft .

[The Third Man 2,217]

Referring to the double points thing, I have never liked it, getting extra for doing the same as you would for getting 3 points I have never understood, at least with the old system you had to gain the points.

 

however what really brought it home to me how micky mouse it is was when I was watching the Glasgow Sheffield match on TV.

 

when Sheffield went 10 points down and Tatum said that because of being 10 points down they could nominate a rider to get double points, really reminded me of the serious sport of "Its a knockout"

[oldtimer 340]

 

It's not about using a computer programme, it's about taking the right meetings into account.

 

Belle Vue had two riders missing last night due to World U21 commitments. Clearly World U21 meetings weren't taken into account when producing the fixtures because Lakeside hadn't had a home meeting for three weeks and Belle Vue had no other Friday fixtures in May so there were plenty of opportunities to hold this meeting when riders were available.

What you suggest would require something called common sense and planning, alas qualities lacking in the majority of those who run speedway.

It would be nice to see the team that actually finished top of the leagues get some sort of recognition for actally winning the league, but no, they have to go and take the top four finishers and after that who ever wins is declared the league chamoion. So the ppor sod who has done all the hard work all year can then end up falling at the last hurdle and finishing fourth. If they want to carry on with this then at least call the team that wins the league winner and the four teams that ride against each other, at least lets have it as a seperate tounament with a cup, but not to see who wins the league.

Somehow it despoils all the hard work done throughout the year, by the true wining team.

How would the punter of the Grand National feel if they had the top 4 horses over the line having to race off against each other as many times as the speedway teams do to be called the Grand National winner. They would be up in arms.

But the majority of speedway supporters, seem to love this stupid system that, was drempt up by the BPSA and SKY.

 

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

They do get recognition, they get a trophy and a mention in Speedway Star. Then they have to decimate their winning team to get below the team average for the following season.

Is this because the promoters aren't on the ball when it comes to music, I'm old but I like loads of modern music, I love loads of old music too, a mixture is the way to go.

 

Come on you 20 somethings, what else do u want?

On the other hand it could be he has now seen the light

 

I don't mind my Lakeside trips must admit, the mic man is bias towards the home team and that is how it should be, the track staff should all be high fiving their riders, playing some winning music (wipe out used to be played at Peterborough when they 5-1'd, it annoyed me sooooo much) etc. That just winds the away fans up which ultimately makes for extra atmosphere. Better excuse my language now lol

 

The promoters and riders just need to think about what the fans want to hear and see and put it into action, I don't think it would be very hard to turn things around for the current fans, if they can get the basics right then hopefully it will attract newbies?

 

The fixture list, rules and double uppers etc, more difficult to get right!

_________________________________________________________________________________________________

I suggested to my teams promoter that they should bring back the music jingles, which they used to have, and was told that I'm the only one that wants them, this came as a surprise to me and obviously I must have missed the meeting when the fans were asked.

Edited May 31, 2015 by oldtimer

[uk_martin 1,606]

promoters are the problem! promoters decide the rules , promoters bend the rules , promoters use the rules to there own teams advantage to the detriment of the sport,

 

independant ruling body is needed,

A STRONG independent body is needed - one with the cojones to upset individual promoters for the greater good

Yeah, OK, lets get rid of the problem. Tony Mole, Nigel Pearson, Buster Chapman, Matt Ford, Chris Van Straaten, etc etc... they'll all be put up against a wall and shot at dawn. That'll help won't it? So the plan is to have a new and independent governing body. OK...

 

A few little questions:

1. Who is going to appoint the people in this independent governing body?

2. Who, of those people worth their salt, would want to serve in this independent governing body?

3. Who is going to pay the people who are going to serve in this independent governing body?

 

Try this out...take your concept of speedway as a business model to the Dragons Den on telly, and see if anyone will invest in it.

 

Lakeside have one of the best web sites, but there still doesn't seem to be any feature that allows for a two-way communication with the promoters.

e-mail??? - NOT all communication has to be in public.

 

Young people get their information from their mobile phones: ALL speedway clubs should remember this.

And so should the BSPA - have you tried using the BSPA site on your mobile phone?

Clearly World U21 meetings weren't taken into account when producing the fixtures because Lakeside hadn't had a home meeting for three weeks and Belle Vue had no other Friday fixtures in May so there were plenty of opportunities to hold this meeting when riders were available.

Last I heard, Jon Cook is responsible for the EL fixtures, and he has "form" for forgetting about FIM fixtures when compiling the EL fixture list. He did exactly the same a couple of years ago when he scheduled Lakeside at home to Birmingham a few years ago, only for it to dawn on him a week beforehand that due to the training requirements, 3 of his riders would be unavailable for the Friday EL meeting, so he had to ask Birmingham for a postponement...after Brummies fans had taken time off work, booked travel, accommodation etc.

[Humphrey Appleby 13,960]

1. Who is going to appoint the people in this independent governing body?

2. Who, of those people worth their salt, would want to serve in this independent governing body?

3. Who is going to pay the people who are going to serve in this independent governing body?

The promoters appoint a Commissioner or (say) three Commissioners for a contract period (say 5 years) to run the sport. The Commissioner(s) should have no connection with any existing promotion.

 

The BSPA determines the general rules for running the sport, but the Commissioner(s) are empowered with the day-to-day implementation and interpretation of those rules, as well as dealing with disciplinary matters.

 

At the end of the contract period, the BSPA is free to hire or fire the Commissioner(s), but that decision would need to be made on the basis of their overall performance over their period in office.

 

It's how most North American sports work, although whoever would want to take the job in speedway is a more pertinent question.

[E I Addio 15,845]

Fans all over the world in loads of sports love play offs ...yet another myth that somehow it's only be bad in speedway ...yet again when comes to double points as I said before those same fans who say they don't go anymore were quite happy to go when you could have unlimited tac subs etc.

Exactly. And those same fans who say they don't go anymore because of the tactical ride still watch it on TV , so what's the. difference ? A tac ride is a tac ride whether it's on TV or watching it live.

 

 

 

Last I heard, Jon Cook is responsible for the EL fixtures,etc.

Oh really ? Who did you hear that from ? A bloke in the pub ? Someone who said he was " in the know"? Someone who knew someone who knew someone whose mate knew something ? I heard that Lakeside were moving to Sittingbourne next year but that wasn't true either.

 

The MC are responsible for the fixtures. Jon Cook is even not on the MC, so yet again more forum gossip is dressed up as fact, meanwhile speedway's real problems rumble on, completely unnoticed by those that just like a good moan.

[pugwash 3,208]

It would be nice to see the team that actually finished top of the leagues get some sort of recognition for actally winning the league, but no, they have to go and take the top four finishers and after that who ever wins is declared the league chamoion. So the ppor sod who has done all the hard work all year can then end up falling at the last hurdle and finishing fourth. If they want to carry on with this then at least call the team that wins the league winner and the four teams that ride against each other, at least lets have it as a seperate tounament with a cup, but not to see who wins the league.

Somehow it despoils all the hard work done throughout the year, by the true wining team.

How would the punter of the Grand National feel if they had the top 4 horses over the line having to race off against each other as many times as the speedway teams do to be called the Grand National winner. They would be up in arms.

But the majority of speedway supporters, seem to love this stupid system that, was drempt up by the BPSA and SKY.

So if the majority are happy what's so stupid about it and If the majority are happy why change it to suit the minority?

Edited May 31, 2015 by pugwash

[TonyE 822]

I totally agree with that, but I don't see any answer while the EL remains in its present form . I love top league racing and would hate to see it go but it may be inevitable. Jon Cook said in his notes that he and Stuart Douglas have no interest in PL in its present form but would be attracted to to some kind of expanded regional competition. I don't quite know what he had in mind but that may well be where it all finishes up.

A merged EL/PL split on a regional basis with an NL beneath it. That would satisfy the promotion's desire to compete at the highest level.

[ch958 2,395]

It would be nice to see the team that actually finished top of the leagues get some sort of recognition for actally winning the league, but no, they have to go and take the top four finishers and after that who ever wins is declared the league chamoion. So the ppor sod who has done all the hard work all year can then end up falling at the last hurdle and finishing fourth. If they want to carry on with this then at least call the team that wins the league winner and the four teams that ride against each other, at least lets have it as a seperate tounament with a cup, but not to see who wins the league.

Somehow it despoils all the hard work done throughout the year, by the true wining team.

How would the punter of the Grand National feel if they had the top 4 horses over the line having to race off against each other as many times as the speedway teams do to be called the Grand National winner. They would be up in arms.

But the majority of speedway supporters, seem to love this stupid system that, was drempt up by the BPSA and SKY.

 

the league winners are the champions and the top 4 go into a play off championship - call it what you will

 

that way its win win both camps get what they want