britmet 233 Posted November 23, 2015 ]Most of the fans want the plays offs ...it's a small number mainly from people over 55 who don't want them . The over 55s ARE today's Speedway fans. Without them there,d be no speedway 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FAST GATER 855 Posted November 23, 2015 ]Most of the fans want the plays offs ...it's a small number mainly from people over 55 who don't want them . The over 55s ARE today's Speedway fans. Without them there,d be no speedwayT SPOT ON although I am not quite there yet( 54yrs old) but my reasons for being against the play offs is that the whole thing is meaningless, that includes winning the league WHAT do teams get out of it except huge wage bills for top riders .I have never thought of not going to speedway because my team didn't win the league ( did in fact Ellesmere Port 1985) look how well that went .It is the quality of racing that matters and having value for money ,you don't need GP stars to make good racing equally matched riders,machinery and close racing make good speedway . 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mdmc82 2,878 Posted November 23, 2015 I really like the play offs. I would also like to see the KOC return as teams that are at the bottom of the league and out of the play off fight early on still have something to challenge for. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The White Knight 9,039 Posted November 23, 2015 You really are so far removed from reality that your opinion is worthless I am afraid Ian That may be the case Oldace - but crucially - I am entitled to said opinion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aces51 2,778 Posted November 23, 2015 I can certainly see the attraction of the play offs and the finals undoubtedly attract a large number of fans. What we don't know is what effect, if any, relegating the league matches up to the play offs into a qualifying competition for those play offs, has had on the dramatic drop in attendances at all those other matches. My feeling is that it has certainly contributed and may be a major factor in the huge drop in total number of fans that attend matches over a whole season. The season is now slanted towards simply finishing in the top 4 and being the form team at the end of the season, either through getting everyone into form at the right time or, making the right team changes in time for the play offs. People argue that interest was lost in the league if there was a run away leader. That wasn't my experience. The league held my interest throughout the season, even if we weren't in contention to win it. I wanted to see how high up we could finish, I wanted to finish higher than local rivals and I wanted us to beat the teams likely to finish above us. Maybe that is just me or maybe overall attendances wouldn't be as dire as they are if we still had league champions rather than play off champions. Another hobby horse of mine is the knock out cup. Promoters tell us nobody is interested. What they forget is that they are largely responsible because of the way the competition was run in recent times. Sometimes months between qualifying rounds and finals fitted in at the end of the season, often in poor weather. It certainly have the impression that the BSPA regarded it as a fixture filler rather than a prestigious competition. I'm sure a properly organised cup competition would be attractive to fans if given a high profile, with each round to be completed in a set timescale and a final immediately before or following the play offs. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BWitcher 12,453 Posted November 23, 2015 SPOT ON although I am not quite there yet( 54yrs old) but my reasons for being against the play offs is that the whole thing is meaningless, that includes winning the league WHAT do teams get out of it except huge wage bills for top riders .I have never thought of not going to speedway because my team didn't win the league ( did in fact Ellesmere Port 1985) look how well that went .It is the quality of racing that matters and having value for money ,you don't need GP stars to make good racing equally matched riders,machinery and close racing make good speedway . Here we go again.. The quality of racing. The quality of racing means zip, nada, zilch. Does Peterboro operate to big crowds? No they don't.. in fact they struggle consistently.. yet they're always praised for their 'quality of racing'. Yet when Peterboro had a really successful period, winning trophies at the lower level, then again at the top level, funnily enough they were packing the fans in. Scunthope.. always praised for 'quality of racing'.. are they turning fans away there at the gate? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The White Knight 9,039 Posted November 23, 2015 I can certainly see the attraction of the play offs and the finals undoubtedly attract a large number of fans. What we don't know is what effect, if any, relegating the league matches up to the play offs into a qualifying competition for those play offs, has had on the dramatic drop in attendances at all those other matches. My feeling is that it has certainly contributed and may be a major factor in the huge drop in total number of fans that attend matches over a whole season. The season is now slanted towards simply finishing in the top 4 and being the form team at the end of the season, either through getting everyone into form at the right time or, making the right team changes in time for the play offs. People argue that interest was lost in the league if there was a run away leader. That wasn't my experience. The league held my interest throughout the season, even if we weren't in contention to win it. I wanted to see how high up we could finish, I wanted to finish higher than local rivals and I wanted us to beat the teams likely to finish above us. Maybe that is just me or maybe overall attendances wouldn't be as dire as they are if we still had league champions rather than play off champions. Another hobby horse of mine is the knock out cup. Promoters tell us nobody is interested. What they forget is that they are largely responsible because of the way the competition was run in recent times. Sometimes months between qualifying rounds and finals fitted in at the end of the season, often in poor weather. It certainly have the impression that the BSPA regarded it as a fixture filler rather than a prestigious competition. I'm sure a properly organised cup competition would be attractive to fans if given a high profile, with each round to be completed in a set timescale and a final immediately before or following the play offs. Terrific Post Aces51. I agree with all of it. Particularly the highlighted piece. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ColinMills 1,728 Posted November 23, 2015 again I agree with TWK. (so not a "worthless" comment)!!.. I have been lucky enough to see 4 championship winning titles (not all the same team) pre play offs. And all of those games had a much larger attendance than normal.. Totally believe top team should be champions, and couldn't care less if im in the minority 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BWitcher 12,453 Posted November 23, 2015 again I agree with TWK. (so not a "worthless" comment)!!.. I have been lucky enough to see 4 championship winning titles (not all the same team) pre play offs. And all of those games had a much larger attendance than normal.. Totally believe top team should be champions, and couldn't care less if im in the minority lol.. another posts an argument for the playoffs... and doesn't realise it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FAST GATER 855 Posted November 23, 2015 (edited) Here we go again.. The quality of racing. The quality of racing means zip, nada, zilch. Does Peterboro operate to big crowds? No they don't.. in fact they struggle consistently.. yet they're always praised for their 'quality of racing'. Yet when Peterboro had a really successful period, winning trophies at the lower level, then again at the top level, funnily enough they were packing the fans in. Scunthope.. always praised for 'quality of racing'.. are they turning fans away there at the gate? I have the same opinion( that is all it is )about winning the league ,anyone that I know has never complained about not winning the league but has about lack of passing and gate and go speedway. Edited November 23, 2015 by FAST GATER Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve roberts 9,247 Posted November 23, 2015 Never been a fan of the play-offs personally. It's an American thing! I recall when Oxford won the Championship back in 2001 under the old tried and tested system and SKY TV missed the event...and what do you know...the next year Play-Offs were in place! Cynic as I am but it's open to manipulation and with an Elite League of only eight or nine(?) teams really makes it all rather pointless! One of the best matches seen at Cowley in living memory was the 1985 Knock-Out Cup Final between 'The Cheetahs' and Ipswich. The meeting had everything. Drama and incident. I can't understand why the Knock Out Cup was withdrawn but that's another reason why I gave up going, and yes, I'm of the 55 year old brigade! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BWitcher 12,453 Posted November 23, 2015 I can certainly see the attraction of the play offs and the finals undoubtedly attract a large number of fans. What we don't know is what effect, if any, relegating the league matches up to the play offs into a qualifying competition for those play offs, has had on the dramatic drop in attendances at all those other matches. My feeling is that it has certainly contributed and may be a major factor in the huge drop in total number of fans that attend matches over a whole season. The season is now slanted towards simply finishing in the top 4 and being the form team at the end of the season, either through getting everyone into form at the right time or, making the right team changes in time for the play offs. People argue that interest was lost in the league if there was a run away leader. That wasn't my experience. The league held my interest throughout the season, even if we weren't in contention to win it. I wanted to see how high up we could finish, I wanted to finish higher than local rivals and I wanted us to beat the teams likely to finish above us. Maybe that is just me or maybe overall attendances wouldn't be as dire as they are if we still had league champions rather than play off champions. Another hobby horse of mine is the knock out cup. Promoters tell us nobody is interested. What they forget is that they are largely responsible because of the way the competition was run in recent times. Sometimes months between qualifying rounds and finals fitted in at the end of the season, often in poor weather. It certainly have the impression that the BSPA regarded it as a fixture filler rather than a prestigious competition. I'm sure a properly organised cup competition would be attractive to fans if given a high profile, with each round to be completed in a set timescale and a final immediately before or following the play offs. Terrific Post Aces51. I agree with all of it. Particularly the highlighted piece. Of course you agree with it TWK.. even though it has absolutely no substance to it again. The arguments Aces presents make little sense. People were more interested how high they could finish in the league before.. but they aren't now. Why? That makes no sense at all. There is still a league, if finishing 6th rather than 7th rocks your boat you can still finish 6th rather than 7th. Absolutely nothing has changed in that respect, so that argument is null and void. We'll extend that.. perhaps finishing 4th rather than 5th rocks your boat.. it still applies, you can celebrate that if you wish... however for all those who aren't really bothered whether they finished 4th or 5th, suddenly they do care, as 4th extends your season and 5th does not. Playoffs wins again, both sets of fans happy The crux of all this however is the fact that some speedway fans feel the need to invent arguments to suit their anti playoff stance. Even though they have absolutely no evidence to back it up. They can't point to any sport to back it up. If playoff's causes such a drop in attendances as is claimed, it would be seen across other sports too. These sports, which are businesses would soon realise that and change. Why don't they? Quite simply, because they don't cause this mythical drop. They have the opposite effect. The declining attendances is generally the only thing anti-playoff folk can hang their hat on.. although again, it's irrelevant. Had speedway attendances been stable before the play-offs they might have had a case, however they weren't, they were in decline... a lot more fans had left the sport prior to the playoffs than have since. There are many, many reasons for the decline of attendances in speedway.. the play-offs isn't one of them. One of the best matches seen at Cowley in living memory was the 1985 Knock-Out Cup Final between 'The Cheetahs' and Ipswich. The meeting had everything. Drama and incident. I can't understand why the Knock Out Cup was withdrawn but that's another reason why I gave up going, and yes, I'm of the 55 year old brigade! Another post in favour of the play-offs and doesn't realise it! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
britmet 233 Posted November 23, 2015 The season is now slanted towards simply finishing in the top 4 and being the form team at the end of the season, either through getting everyone into form at the right time or, making the right team changes in time for the play offs. . This is what makes a mockery of a league , - pulling in a SGP rider who's not been willing to ride in the UK for a season but will, for short-term inflated pay, finish the season here, when in effect he and that Sept/Oct team line-up, - you know the one I'm thinking of - , has not been the one that's competed in the league the preceding 5 months ! . There needs to be a rule, - sorry, yes, another but essential rule - , to stop clubs drafting in heat-leaders at the end of the season if they weren't prepared to commit to a full season in a UK league. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BWitcher 12,453 Posted November 23, 2015 I have the same opinion( that is all it is )about winning the league ,anyone that I know has never complained about not winning the league but has about lack of passing and gate and go speedway. So tell me, who gets the biggest crowds. Team top of the league with poor to average racing, or same team bottom of the league with very good racing? . This is what makes a mockery of a league , - pulling in a SGP rider who's not been willing to ride in the UK for a season but will, for short-term inflated pay, finish the season here, when in effect he and that Sept/Oct team line-up, - you know the one I'm thinking of - , has not been the one that's competed in the league the preceding 5 months ! . There needs to be a rule, - sorry, yes, another but essential rule - , to stop clubs drafting in heat-leaders at the end of the season if they weren't prepared to commit to a full season in a UK league. Ah, yes. Every season we're getting this. Its madness. I've lost count of the amount of times this has happened.. Oh hang on.. perhaps I haven't.. perhaps you have a list of all of these heat leaders that have been 'drafted in' at the end of the season just for the play-offs? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ColinMills 1,728 Posted November 23, 2015 lol.. another posts an argument for the playoffs... and doesn't realise it.? really?. could I be any clearer? team with most points should be champions. how does that support play offs?...to win the league, in pre play offs, a top side could win the league against the bottom side, yet the turnout would still be higher than normal..how on earth does that back the play offs? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
