The White Knight 9,039 Posted October 2, 2015 but in pre play offs, 90% of matches it didn't matter if a team won or lost, because a couple of months into the season you knew there were only 2 or 3 teams that could win the league. One thing I don't like is teams reshuffling teams just for the play offs, I think there should be a rule that a rider must have ridden "x" meetings for the team to be elegible (or a much earlier deadline for changes), unless called in as an injury replacement (with some strict enforcement around definition of injured riders e.g. not riding any other speedway apart from GPS). You could say exactly the same about the British Premier League Football - that seems to work. No 'Play Offs' there because the F.A. have some clout and won't be dictated to by SKY. Unlike the BSPA. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waiheke1 4,295 Posted October 2, 2015 but in football, teams that can't win the league have champions league places or europa league places to play for, or relegation to avoid, so there are very few meaningles fixtures. do you really believe if Sky pulled the plug the BSPA would stop the play offs? the argument that play offs are "unfair" is a reasonable one (note also this is argued against for the promorion play offs in football - but those are retained, guess what for commercial reasons) but fact is they make a lot of commercial sense, and that arguably makes them a neccesity if the sport is to survive. note also that champions league and world cup football all conclude with a series of knock out (or "play off") rounds. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The White Knight 9,039 Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) but in football, teams that can't win the league have champions league places or europa league places to play for, or relegation to avoid, so there are very few meaningles fixtures. do you really believe if Sky pulled the plug the BSPA would stop the play offs? the argument that play offs are "unfair" is a reasonable one (note also this is argued against for the promorion play offs in football - but those are retained, guess what for commercial reasons) but fact is they make a lot of commercial sense, and that arguably makes them a neccesity if the sport is to survive. note also that champions league and world cup football all conclude with a series of knock out (or "play off") rounds. I don't think you or I will ever agree on this whka1 - but it is a pleasure to debate with someone who doesn't resort to personal abuse. Edited October 2, 2015 by The White Knight Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ColinMills 1,728 Posted October 2, 2015 ouch.....look on barb top 30 through google....im not commenting on 2 people here, bwitcher (cos he gets too uptight) or rob72 (cos hes beyond help)....At no point have I said anything about skys financial success..i just pointed out, 89,000 ( not even 1 million) is good viewing figs....yes,its good for the amount of subscribed viewers, but on the whole, I just meant,for how much they have spent on that sport, I would want and expect, more than 89,000 viewers...that's all, I think "normal" post people can debate,but others just not worth the effort of debate!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oldace 1,678 Posted October 2, 2015 ouch.....look on barb top 30 through google....im not commenting on 2 people here, bwitcher (cos he gets too uptight) or rob72 (cos hes beyond help)....At no point have I said anything about skys financial success..i just pointed out, 89,000 ( not even 1 million) is good viewing figs....yes,its good for the amount of subscribed viewers, but on the whole, I just meant,for how much they have spent on that sport, I would want and expect, more than 89,000 viewers...that's all, I think "normal" post people can debate,but others just not worth the effort of debate!! 0.89 means 890,000 not 89,000 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ColinMills 1,728 Posted October 2, 2015 correct...I know that, but yes, my mistake...(isn't it nice when people admit a mistake)! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lucifer sam 3,953 Posted October 2, 2015 You could say exactly the same about the British Premier League Football - that seems to work. No 'Play Offs' there because the F.A. have some clout and won't be dictated to by SKY. Unlike the BSPA. TWK, I wish speedway was something on the level of popularity of the Football Premier League. We're not. If you look at other sports, such as Rugby and Ice Hockey, etc, etc, they all have Play-Offs too. As for being dictated to by Sky, really???? How come there's play-offs in our Premier League then? I must have missed the Sky TV coverage for these play-offs. Maybe there are play-offs because the clubs and promoters want them, because they recognise their value? Money-spinning meetings that bring in much needed revenue. I think anyone sensible would want those. All the best Rob 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vincent Blachshadow 2,937 Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) TWK, I wish speedway was something on the level of popularity of the Football Premier League. We're not. If you look at other sports, such as Rugby and Ice Hockey, etc, etc, they all have Play-Offs too. As for being dictated to by Sky, really???? How come there's play-offs in our Premier League then? I must have missed the Sky TV coverage for these play-offs. Maybe there are play-offs because the clubs and promoters want them, because they recognise their value? Money-spinning meetings that bring in much needed revenue. I think anyone sensible would want those. All the best Rob The example you provide for play-offs in a comparable sport shows the League title does not have to be at stake for play-offs to be successful and well attended. Why are they in the PL? Surely you remember the promotion/relegation farce asked for by Sky. That's why they came in. Edited October 2, 2015 by Vincent Blackshadow Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
orion 7,615 Posted October 2, 2015 Something that had never started can't carry on, that is fact. Whether we'd have them now if they hadn't started back then is conjecture. My opinion is that they would not have - some clubs have had the opinion, in the past, that there were already too many matches so would hardly have been keen on running some more and two cup competitions have already been axed to keep the number of matches down. People wanting less matches would hardly vote for having even more. Polish speedway has a squad system, do we? Sweden and Poland run on one day of the week, do we? Do the Poles or Swedes have guests? Just because another country has something doesn't mean we would necessarily follow. Sorry not sure what your point is ? Sweden ,Poland ,PL all have play offs all not shown by sky . so the bottom line is we don't just have play offs because of sky that is clear to see . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lucifer sam 3,953 Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) The example you provide for play-offs in a comparable sport shows the League title does not have to be at stake for play-offs to be successful and well attended. Why are they in the PL? Surely you remember the promotion/relegation farce asked for by Sky. That's why they came in. No they didn't. They were no play-offs in 2011. They came back in, in 2012, because 2011 was a very boring league competition where Glasgow were runaway winners, and the competition was effectively over by June. 2012, 2013 and 2014 have all seen dramatic play-off finals. That's why they are in the Premier League. Stop using Sky as a smokescreen. They have no say whether the Premier League has play-offs. That's decided by the clubs and promoters. They chose play-offs, because it's good business. All the best Rob Edited October 2, 2015 by lucifer sam 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Blazeaway 1,501 Posted October 2, 2015 correct...I know that, but yes, my mistake...(isn't it nice when people admit a mistake)! Well you do make plenty. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vincent Blachshadow 2,937 Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) No they didn't. They were no play-offs in 2011. They came back in, in 2012, because 2011 was a very boring league competition where Glasgow were runaway winners, and the competition was effectively over by June. 2012, 2013 and 2014 have all seen dramatic play-off finals. That's why they are in the Premier League. Stop using Sky as a smokescreen. They have no say whether the Premier League has play-offs. That's decided by the clubs and promoters. They chose play-offs, because it's good business. All the best Rob I don't think anybody is against the concept of play-offs just the fact that a season-long competition is devalued by becoming a mere qualifying competition for a few knock-out matches at the end of the season. Your comparable example (ice hockey) shows that the league title doesn't have to be the prize for a play-off competition to be successful. Have play-offs by all means, but for the Craven Cup or something like that. Edited October 2, 2015 by Vincent Blackshadow Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oldace 1,678 Posted October 2, 2015 I don't think anybody is against the concept of play-offs just the fact that a season-long competition is devalued by becoming a mere qualifying competition for a few knock-out matches at the end of the season. Your comparable example (ice hockey) shows that the league title doesn't have to be the prize for a play-off competition to be successful. Have play-offs by all means, but for the Craven Cup or something like that. If only someone had thought of that 15 years ago. That would pack the fans in. Premier League could do the same using another famous name, The Young Shield perhaps, in honour of Jack Young. Clearly no one in the BSPA has your vision on how to fill the terraces Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vincent Blachshadow 2,937 Posted October 2, 2015 If only someone had thought of that 15 years ago. That would pack the fans in. Premier League could do the same using another famous name, The Young Shield perhaps, in honour of Jack Young. Clearly no one in the BSPA has your vision on how to fill the terraces Again, you're missing the point that it does work in ice hockey. Why wouldn't it work in speedway? Instead of coming out with posts such as the one I've quoted, tell me why something that works in another bit-part sport won't work in speedway. Is it the fickle fans or the unexciting product on show? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
